Is Trump playing a joke on Americans?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump IS the ruling class. How can you folks not see this already? You didn't elect an outsider, you didn't elect a rebel(unless you were rebelling against class and civility), you didn't elect an anti-establishment guy. You elected the establishment and one of it's most outspoken mentally unstable poster boys.

    Own your choice by all means, but the election is over, we can stop with the ridiculous narratives about who Trump is.
     
  2. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Critics of Trump are taking the President literally, and don't you dare say we can't understand our President literally. What he says is important. If Trump doesn't understand that, as you seem to be saying, then shame on him. If you are trying to defend him in that way, you are doing him no credit.

    Trump purposely and unequivocally accused Obama directly with four sepearate tweets. Here is two of them.

    "I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"

    "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"

    You can't get anymore clearer than that. Two weeks later, he and Spicer tried various ways to change the scenario. It doesn't work like that. You can't un-ring a bell, er, tweet.

    Comey said yesterday that Trump Tower was not wiretapped. It doesn't matter now how many ways they want to change the story. There was no surveillance of Trump Tower.

    The answer to your last question is yes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    What I don't get is Trump's fawning fans invariably accusing Trump's detractors of being whining liberals or that members of the establishment are in some kind of pain and squealing like pigs. Considering the fact that criticism of Trump is based nearly entirely on Trump's own actions, I suppose that is all his base can say. Or they can change the subject. They can't defend him. Trump committed the act that led to the criticism.

    Like accusing a former President of a felony without a shred of evidence.

    On the other hand, this is all a big joke to Trump.
     
  4. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I assume you know through common sense that Trump did not mean "Obama" literally nor wiretap necessarily literally. Or do you think Trump was actually accusing Obama of flying to New York, probably climbing up the side of the building to not be recognized, breaking through a window and attaching a recording device to the phone wires? (Planting a bug is not technically a wiretap.)
    Comey said there is an ongoing counter-intelligence (whatever that is) investigation going on between Russia and Trump campaign. (Though he would not admit to an ongoing investigation of administration people clearly illegally taping Flynn's conversation and then illegally leaking it to the press.)
    And you do know that the NY Times had a front page article on Jan 19 describing government "wiretapping" efforts against the Trump campaign, right??
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  5. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    "I assume you know through common sense that Trump did not mean "Obama" literally nor wiretap necessarily literally." You know I am really, really tired of hearing that lame excuse for Trump from his supporters. It is like saying Americans can't take their President seriously. He really didn't mean what he said. He's not a politician, as if only politicians can learn how to talk.

    Yes, I did take him literally just as every American should be allowed to take their President seriously. Besides that, I am rather certain he meant exactly what he said. He didn't become the owner of a multi-billion dollar business empire by speaking in tongues.

    Don't ask me to explain what Trump thought. In case you haven't noticed, I am not a fan of his thinking. I certainly am not an apologist for his thinking.

    As for who leaked Flynn's name, the person should be thanked. Anyone who divulges the name or names of Americans who are talking to Russian agents should be honored not prosecuted.
     
  6. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Newsfash! an ambassador is not an agent. The person who recorded and transcribed Flynn and the person (if different) who leaked illegal confidential information can be honored if you want but it should be done with them behind bars for top level felonies.
     
  7. canadianhealthcarerecip

    canadianhealthcarerecip Member

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    Amen
     
  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    At the time Flynn was slated to be the NSA, but he was a private citizen interfering in U.S. foreign policy with an enemy power who we had just sanctioned for interfering in our election. The person who came forward with Flynn's indiscretion, if not a crime, should be given a medal.

    Why do think it is perfectly okay for a private citizen to interfere in American foreign policy? Is it because that person was a member of Trump's team and he should be pardoned for violating a Presidential order? Would you be just as generous if the violator were a member of Obama's team?

    What should happen to people who undermine the President? According to you, nothing. The perp who discovered the violation should be punished.

    That's the way Nunes thinks, too. He doesn't represent his district. He represents Trump.

    An ambassador is an agent for a foreign power.
     
  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Thank you.
     
  10. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why don't you put away the conspiracy theories, give up on socialism, and support our new president?
     
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  11. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Presidential transition team members and president elects talk with foreign leaders all the time. It is as natural as waking up in the morning. If Flynn did something detrimental and illegal in his conservation with the Russian Ambassador (recall -- not Agent) you would think he would have been arrested.

    Obama's transition team carried out actual negotiations with Israel and Syria over getting talks back going with Syria and getting Israel to withdraw from bombing the Gaza Strip. That is a clear cut violation of the Logan Act -- which so far has not prosecuted anybody. Not even Ted Kennedy who set up negotiations with the Soviet KGB to try and get help from the Russians for the 1984 election.

    You should come down to earth and stop the arm waving nonsense.
     
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  12. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Talented at conning people into voting for him? Yes. Talented at translating his business skills into political results.... not so much.
     
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  13. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    When he starts acting like one. Look at his rambling during an interview with Time Magazine.

    But I inherited a mess, I inherited a mess in so many ways. I inherited a mess in the Middle East, and a mess with North Korea, I inherited a mess with jobs, despite the statistics, you know, my statistics are even better, but they are not the real statistics because you have millions of people that can’t get a job, ok. And I inherited a mess on trade. I mean we have many, you can go up and down the ladder. But that’s the story. Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody OK?

    Is this the kind of man you want in the White House? Here is the entire interview. He rambles throughout. He's embarrassing.

    http://time.com/4710456/donald-trump-time-interview-truth-falsehood/
     
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  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    If Flynn's conversation with Kislyak was innocent, why did he lie to the Veep and why did he get fired. Flynn spoke with Kislyak on the very same day Obama imposed the sanctions. The very next day, in a very strange and uncharacteristic move, Putin refused to retaliate. Instead, he invited American kids living in Moscow to a Christmas party.

    No, that is not a smoking gun, but it sure as hell is suspicious. I'm sure you would agree.

    As for your last para, please provide substantiation. Even if true, didn't the Obama team save lives? If so, that is a far cry from making a deal with the Russians that forgives them for interfering in our elections.
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    You could say that. His signature campaign promise, repeal and replace Obamacare, is dead. Trump didn't have the votes. The House vote was cancelled and the issue is dead. The Republicans have no other recourse than to work with the Democrats and make changes to the ACA.

    Trump was destined for failure and many knew that. You can't increase coverage, provide health care for everyone, while lowering the cost. That was always a false promise, but Trump said it over and over again before and after he became President.

    According to the CBO analysis, AHCA would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over the coming decade. There is only one way to do that. Reduce federal government participation by $337 billion, and that means less coverage, not more. Trump and the Republicans were lying to the American people, and that caused the plan to fail. If the federal government takes away a benefit to the people, the party responsible will fail. Members of the House knew that and they refused to support Trumpcare. It is a horrible blow to the President.

    Although the House is controlled by Republicans, Trump blamed Democrats for Trumpcare's failure.

    It could get worse. First of all, Trump is washing his hands of health care legislation. The Hill reports, "President Trump is moving on after the House GOP pulled its healthcare bill from a floor vote, he told The Washington Post’s Robert Costa Friday afternoon.

    "Trump told Costa by phone that a push to repeal and replace ObamaCare — the centerpiece of Republican messaging throughout the last several elections — won't come up again in the near future."

    "He's going to let things be on healthcare, the bill is not going to come again, at least in the near future," Costa said.

    Perhaps tax reform is next, another signature issue for Trump. However, the failure of Trumpcare, more precisely, the loss of $337 billion in savings in government spending, will make tax reform that much more difficult. Trumpcare would have affected slightly less than 7% of the population. Tax reform will affect 100% of the population. If the Republicans could not come together on an issue involving 7% of the population, how can they be expected to come together on an issue that involves 100% of the population?

    After tax reform comes infrastructure repair and financing. But it was supposed to begin with Trumpcare and Trumpcare failed. The Republicans control both houses of Congress and the White House. Is it possible the party of NO can't govern?
     
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  16. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Trump's idea of letting insurance companies compete across state lines is a good one, but the non-business oriented Congress either doesn't see it or is too enmeshed with the insurance corporations themselves.

    Health insurance has been excessively profitable for years; you can tell by looking at the edifices they have constructed. In another age that kind of money would have gone into building cathedrals.
     
  17. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Anyway you cut it, Trump sold his fawning fan base a bill of goods. Healthcare for everyone, choose your doctor, choose your insurance company, and quality health care for a lower premium, I can't believe his followers believed him, but they did.

    Next up, tax reform, because Trump has abandoned health care. Now his followers will see the true Trump. They probably think tax reform will help them. It won't. Any savings they get will be more than eaten up by rising grocery prices because Trump wants to use tariffs on imported goods to finance tax relief for corporations.

    Trump fans, you got played.
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Compete across state lines? LOLOL Its a completely worthless idea.
     
  19. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Might I just say , we'll said sir . Although it is like talking to a stick !
     
  20. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Credible posters on here usually provide substantiation when they make statements like this.
     
  21. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Turns out Margot2 was correct. There won't be any phase two or phase three. The fact is it was all a big joke. Despite being a signature campaign issue, there won't be any Trumpcare. Trump has already put it behind him, and he is moving on to tax reform, which will be far more difficult than Trumpcare.

    Let us move on to still another joke, the Nunes affair.

    For one thing, if the only news you get on this subject is from this forum and you ignore half of it -- the half that makes Trump look guilty -- then you are going to remain sadly uninformed. The "proof" was a leak from the White House and, as it turns out, we still don't know what the proof is. Incredibly, Nunes hasn't even told members of his committee what the documents contain.

    First, Nunes cancelled an open hearing that would have included fired ass't A.G. Sally Yates. Then the secret hearing involving Director Comey and Admiral Rogers that was to be held today was cancelled.

    In the meantime, no one knows what is in the documents except Nunes and he isn't telling anybody and he isn't allowing any hearings on the subject.

    One would have to be pretty dense not to be suspicious of these Machiavellian activities. All this leads to the conclusion that there is something very damning to the President in those documents.

    One thing is for sure. Whatever his motivation, which would include a vain attempt to protect the President, Nunes has made a complete mess of it. When a Senator from his own party (Graham) is calling for Nunes to step down, you know it is bad.

    Hint: Although the leak came from the White House, the leaker is not a friend of the President.
     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Oh look it up.. Its like Trump's BS about Uranium One which is a Canadian company.

    Trump is an old fool.. He gets a piece of information.. INCORRECT.. and runs with it.

    I know a lot of old men.. The ones plunging into senility get like that.
     
  23. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Increased competition usually results in reduced prices. I fail to see why it would not in the case of medical insurance, and your contempt is not enough to prove that.
     
  24. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Acting attorney general Sally Yates played a key role in the investigation surrounding Mike Flynn, a Trump campaign aide who became national security adviser before revelations that he had discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador to the United States in late December led to his ouster. Yates and another witness at the planned hearing, former CIA director John Brennan, had made clear to government officials by Thursday that their testimony to the committee probably would contradict some statements that White House officials had made.

    On Friday, when Yates’s lawyer sent a letter to the White House indicating that she still wanted to testify, the hearing was canceled by Nunes.

    White House spokesman Sean Spicer denied that the White House sought to hinder Yates’s testimony. “I hope she testifies, I look forward to it,’’ he said. “To suggest in any way, shape or form that we stood in the way of that is 100 percent false.’’

    “I hope she testifies, I look forward to it.’’ Easy to say, when you know she won't because the chairman of the committee is in your pocket, and he cancelled the hearing.

    Once again, we have to ask ourselves a question. First, Nunes on Tuesday quietly slips of over to the White House to see an informant. He says he went there to view classified documents, as if Congress has no such facility, which of course it does have. Then he returns to the White House on Wednesday to warn the White House of information received from the White House. He cancelled an open hearing on the issue. Then a closed hearing on the issue involving the FBI directory and NSA director is cancelled. All meetings of the House Intelligent Committee this week have been canceled. No one knows the contents of the documents Nunes supposedly has in his possession, not even members of his committee.

    Now here is my question. Is there any intelligent person out there who thinks Nunes is doing all this on his own? That the White House is not involved in the hush treatment and cancellations?

    If such an individual exists, please let me know. There is a bridge I'd like to sell you.
     
  25. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    So far, three Republicans have demanded Nunes step down from the investigation, Sens. Graham and McCain and Rep. Walter Jones.

    When asked if Nunes should step down, Ryan gave him a half-hearted attaboy. He simply said "No and no."

    Nunes seems to have gotten confused about the length of his committee's investigation. In a reply he said, "As you know, this Russia issue, we have been on it for many, many years, and so we'll continue to be on the issue."

    "Many, many years?" Or was it a Freudian slip? Does Trump's connection to the Russians go back "many, many years?"
     

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