Islam and Islamophobia

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by stan1990, Dec 3, 2018.

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Do you agree with the view expressed in this thread?

Poll closed Jan 2, 2019.
  1. Yes

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  2. No

    77.8%
  1. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    An early version of what later became the Apostles’ Creed, called the “Old Roman Creed,” was in use as early as the second century (Kelly, Creeds, 101). The earliest written form of this creed is found in a letter that Marcellus of Ancyra wrote in Greek to Julius, the bishop of Rome, about AD 341. About 50 years later, Tyrannius Rufinus wrote a commentary on this creed in Latin (Commentarius in symbolum apostolorum). In it, he recounted the viewpoint that the apostles wrote the creed together after Pentecost, before leaving Jerusalem to preach (Symb. 2). The title “Apostles’ Creed” is also mentioned about 390 by Ambrose, where he refers to “the creed of the Apostles which the Church of Rome keeps and guards in its entirety” (Ep. 42, trans. in Saint Ambrose: Letters). The text of the Old Roman Creed is as follows, with the last phrase (included by Marcellus but omitted by Rufinus) in brackets (Kelly, Creeds, 102):
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christian doctrine does not consist of the entire Bible. Interpretation of some Bible verses are used to justify Christian doctrine but, this interpretation and doctrine varies from one Christian sect.

    There are some groups - Fundamentalists for example- that may claim the entire Bible is their doctrine. 1) this claim is false as those that make this claim do not have all of the Bible as doctrine. Pizza guy does not think he is violating fundamentalist doctrine by selling (and eating) pepperoni and working on Sunday - because he is not violating fundamentalist doctrine. 2) Fundamentalist doctrine is not the doctrine of all Christianity.

    The same is true within Islam. Various groups within Islam have different interpretations and different doctrine. Individuals within these groups have different beliefs which may or may not adhere to official doctrine.

    Why is my premise so difficult to understand. Not all Muslims are Islamists - believe in Sharia Law ?
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) Not all Christians adhere to Christian doctrine - just like within Islam
    2) Depending on the group of Christians being referred to - the doctrine has changed - Just like within Islam.
    3) I said this "was" Christian doctrine - I believe that the Catholic Church has repealed the Papal Bull legalizing torture - in which case it would no longer be doctrine.

    The simple fact that doctrine changes like this and with respect to numerous other things - should tell you that all of the Bible is not doctrine.
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course I did .. numerous times. That there is a difference between a Muslim who is an Islamist and one who is not - has been been stated to you numerous times - and I have given support for this claim numerous times.

    You on the other hand continue to generalize Islamic religious verses to all Muslims which is pure fallacy.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just because something is based on the Bible - does not necessarily make it part of doctrine that all - or even most - Christians.

    In the case of the Apostles creed - the majority of Christians adhere to this doctrine.
     
  6. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    They are not interpretations.
    They are which do you chose to believe.
    This is dictated by the cleric.
    We have Muslims who never read anything about Muhammed,
    so their cleric can tell them anything.
    And in the west you can get away with a lot of BS.
     
  7. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    No, That explained nothing,

    I think an Islamist is a Muslim who follows the teachings and deeds of Muhammed.

    If you have a different explanation, please write it down.


    Your premise so difficult to understand. because you have not said what it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  8. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    The problem you have here is the people in charge, because if you have a different version of Islam, you will die for it.

    The Christians will not kill you for a different version.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Different Imam's/Clerics give different interpretations - hence why we have Shia, Sunni, Islmali, Sufi and various other Muslim sects.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I gave you the premise in the post you are responding to. "there is a difference between a Muslim who is an Islamist and one who is not".

    An Islamist is a Muslim who believes in Sharia Law. Not all Muslims believe in Sharia Law

    The reason Law is bolded is because there is a difference between a personal choice to observe Sharia Laws - and the belief that Sharia should be the Law of the land.

    There is a difference between 1 ) having a personal belief and 2) forcing that personal belief on others through physical violence (Law).

    The Islamist believes in 2) Not all Muslims believe in forcing sharia religious dictates on others through Law.
     
  11. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    I think that is a personal opinion, and it is not correct.

    I think is evolves around your practice of the religion.

    Who invented the term, we should be able to look it up.
     
  12. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Over 100 sects, and they are killing each other for them.
    And virtually none of them are allowed to read about the religion.
    The cleric dictates to them what to believe.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) Bold - not anymore :)
    2) You will not necessarily be killed for having a different version of Islam ... it depends on whether or not you live in the land of Saud - and if you have engaged in apostasy. There are Shia living in Saudi Arabia who are not killed for having a different version of Islam.

    Those who are switch "apostasy" are subject to the death sentence - assuming this law is still in effect. Many Muslim nations do not give the death penalty for apostasy.

    Again you are generalizing the traits of some nutjobs Muslims - to all Muslims = logical fallacy.
     
  14. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    You made up your own definition, and it is not correct.
    The actual one is closer to mine, someone who follows the teachings and deeds of Muhammed
    ·


    Islam·ist
    [ˈizlaməst]
    NOUN
    1. an advocate or supporter of Islamic militancy or fundamentalism.
      "radical Islamists"
    ADJECTIVE
    1. relating to, advocating, or supporting Islamic militancy or fundamentalism.
      "hardline Islamist groups" ·
      [more]
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  15. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    There are people pulled over on the road, and killed because they are not the same group.
    No, not all muslims will kill them, but many will, and do.

    Shall I post some of their events.

    Shia mosques blowing up, Sunni mosques blowing up.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are generalizing .. AGAIN ! Why is it so difficult for you to understand that this is logical fallacy = false logic ?
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a reason why dictionaries are not used as textbooks for all College subjects.

    Fundamentalism = believe in Sharia Law. the "hardline" in hardline Islamist groups = believe that Sharia should be the law of the Land.

    There is no such thing as an Islamist who does not believe that Sharia should be the law of the Land. The "militancy" part = those who believe in the use of militancy in order to make Sharia the law of the land.
     
  18. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Do you live in a cave, they are killing each other all the time.

    Hell 35.000 since 9/11, and that is a smaller than actual number.
    Most have multiple victims.
     
  19. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    FAIL again.

    You're good at that.
    You are making up your own definitions.

    fun·da·men·tal·ism
    [ˌfəndəˈmen(t)lˌizəm]
    NOUN
    1. a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture.
      synonyms:
      fanaticism · radicalism · zealotry · zeal · fundamentalism · dogmatism · bigotry · militancy · activism · sectarianism · chauvinism · partisanship
      • strict adherence to the basic principles of any subject or discipline.
        "free-market fundamentalism"
     
  20. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Most Muslims believe sharia should be the law.
    I don't think that makes them Islamist.

    They need to follow scripture.

    In fact, Islamist, has nothing to do with sharia.
    It might tag along with them, but it is not the reason..
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some are killing each other - you continue to generalize the actions of some to all = logical fallacy.

    Not sure what your 35,000 figure refers to ?
     
  22. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    35,000 terror attacks, all against the other people.
    Most have multiple victims.
    To put it into perspective.

    There were 2 abortion clinic bombings in the same time period, and both were condemned by the church.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are the only one failing. A strict literal interpretation of the Qu'ran is the basis for Strict Sharia.

    All Islamist's believe in Sharia Law. This does not mean there are not other characteristics that Islamist's share.

    It is getting painful having to dumb things down to a pre-kindergarten level for you all the time.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    n fact, Islamist, has nothing to do with sharia.
    It might tag along with them, but it is not the reason.
    Correct - the majority of Muslims believe in Sharia Law. While I contend that this makes them Islamist's - it matters not because if someone does not believe that Sharia should be the law .. one is not an Islamist.

    Scripture which proscribes Sharia Law.

    In fact you have no clue what you are talking about.
     
  25. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    LOLOLOL

    FAIL again.

    You just make this sh-t up as you go along.

    Sharia is a combination of the Qur'an and SUNNAH.
    a very small part of the Qur'an.

    Not the Qur'an

    You never even read THE SUNNAH.


    And what scripture is in the Qur'an, did you ever read that.
    There is not much,
    Certainly not enough to fill volumes of books on sharia law.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

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