Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

LOLOL

Yeah right.

I can show you thousands of verses in Islamic text that order the BS.
You can show one in Christianity, that you miss translate.

Muhammed was a terrorist, murderer, thief, slave trader, rapist, and a slew of other adjectives.
Jesus was none of these.

Jesus did not rob and kill people and order his followers to do the same.
He did not rape anyone.

 

So now you are just making things up.

I have posted many times,
I stress education.
I know more about Islam than most muslims do,
and they should all learn the real facts
Right now, they are brainwashed sheep, waiting for their orders.

 

Sorry, but you know you’ve been shown otherwise.

 

You're just being childish again.

show me where Jesus raped people, tortured people.
I can show you where Muhammed did.

 

[

No, you stated, "The only way is to annihilate the religion."

 

Jesus specifically told you the old law is not abolished. You are fully aware of that fact.

 

That does not mean the people,
It means the religion.
And I stress education.
I firmly believe most muslims would leave if they learned about Muhammed.

The world has to stop lying about it, and put it on the table for all to see.

 

I do not defend the genocidal acts of the early Israelites. But there is clearly NO general call from God to the Israelites to kill everyone who doesn't believe. There is similarly no call from Jesus or Paul to the Christians to kill everyone who doesn't believe. There IS a general call from Mohammed to kill or subjugate everyone who doesn't believe. Period.

No. Those fighting other Muslims are Muslims, but the only people fighting terrorism are Westerners or Asians (in India, Indonesia, etc.)

Partially yes and partially no. We crippled al Qaeda and put the Taliban out of business, but our premature withdrawal from Iraq enabled the creation and growth of ISIS, and our siding with the Muslim rebels against the Syrian (at least nominally religiously neutral) government made things much worse. So we have solved some problems and exacerbated others.

This is simply false. Osama bin Laden hit us specifically because our presence on Saudi Arabian ground (to protect Saudi Arabia in case of attack by Saddam Hussein, it must be added) he considered to be "sacrilege". He hit us because of our support for Israel, not Saudi Arabia. He hit us because we're not Muslim. He hit us because that is what the Koran told him to do.

"Bin Laden laid out the basis for his animus against America as early as August 1996 when he lamented in a fatwa published by a London-based newspaper how “the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity, and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance,” a reference to America’s close relations with Israel as well as pliant but oppressive Arab regimes. He condemned what he said were U.S.-abetted massacres done to Muslim communities from Palestine to Chechnya and the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children who died from lack of food and medicine due to the “unjustifiable” U.S.-led sanctions on the country during the 1990s. The deployment throughout the Gulf states of U.S. forces, particularly in Saudi Arabia, he argued, is “the greatest of … aggressions incurred by the Muslims since the death of the prophet.”"

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...05/03/what-actually-motivated-osama-bin-laden

Note specifically he did not refer to "the people of the Middle East", he referred to "the people of Islam". He saw it as a holy war and so do the rest of the Muslim terrorists attacking the West. Three churches a day are being vandalized in France by Muslim attackers. You don't think we're in a religious war, but they do. Churches are the most visible sign of the Christian West and so become the first objects of attack.

Not true. Islam destroyed whole multitudes of religions throughout the Middle East and North Africa. Christianity destroyed the Greek, Roman, and Norse religions peacefully, but destroyed them nevertheless. Religious wars absolutely can be won. It's just an ideology like any other, Islam is just one of the most vile, hateful, destructive, and repressive ideologies ever devised, second only to Communism for its murderous impact. It needs to join Communism on the ash heap of history.

 

Yasureoktoo is probably less versed on Bible scripture than he is on the Koran, so let me answer this one. Christians generally believe that the critical part of this statement is the part you left out, namely, "I have not come to abolish them [the laws] but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." And it was accomplished, in Jesus' death and resurrection. From that point on, the Law no longer governed. From then on, grace rules instead. Paul's injunction on the law: "23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise." Galatians 3.

 

Actually most of my religious studies are in Islam,
Only 14% of Islam is the Qur'an, the sunnah makes up the rest, and it is really fu-ked up

I do want to comment on your 233 post.
Excellent post.

 

He's just trolling the thread, and another one with the same stuff.
a few people stepped in and corrected him but he ignores it.
A few of the dozen or so verses explaining it were posted, to no avail.

 

I keep him on iggy most of the time because he never supports anything with facts or arguments, just repeats the same bald assertions over and over again. He's like a 3 year old yelling, "MINE! MINE! MINE!"

 

That hasn't stopped Christians from killing in the name of God. And, the Bible has plenty of examples of God condoning wholesale slaughter - so whether Jesus did or not is pretty much moot.

This is just false. The majority fighting terrorism are Muslims. We have very few troops involved in that. We aren't leading that. And, we ARE contributing to the problems in the ME.

ISIS grew in Iraq WHILE WE WERE THERE, NOT after we left. And, before we conquered Iraq there was no terrorist problem in Iraq. The opening came when we decided that Sunnis were the enemy and thus carefully destroyed their ability to be employed, to be secure against Shiite aggression, etc. Sunnis couldn't fight the USA, defend against Shiites AND fight ISIS at the same time. Our "debaathification" program was a blunder of historic consequences.

OBL was fairly prolific in what he stated as motives and in what audience he said them. For example, it's believed his reference to our support for Israeli criminality in Palestine was targeting recruitment of those ready to sacrifice their lives against the US.

If you want to discuss this topic, I think it requires a full thread (at least). And, it needs to include much more than one of his statements and certainly FAR more than one blogger's opinion you found in USNews.

You go for it. But, there is NO chance America is going to end Islam. That's just plain silly. And, peacefully??? So far we have built ZERO credibility in ANY Muslim community. Every time we touch it we create numerous new and more resolute enemies with our smug and detached attitude and massive military. The idea that Islam would give up their religion in favor of ours has got to be one of the stupid ideas of the age.

We had a huge opportunity in Egypt. Tell me how THAT went. Why did Egyptians rejected ideas for new government purely because the ideas sounded like something the USA might say. And, that from Egyptian progressives who wanted democracy and secular rule.

 

You are combining two religions here to get some kind of false effect.
The Old Jewish stuff has lots of killing.
The New testament, and the entry of Jesus and Christianity and the new laws, does not.

 

I agree we never should have destablized the country, but ISIS was always around, and always will be.
The name will change and the people also, but this is just the branch of Islam that enforces Muhammeds will.
There are 200 or so at any given time, and we only hear about the larger ones.

and there was lots of terror in Iraq before us, but it was controlled by Saddam himself.
Saddam was an evil terrorist, but through terror he kept the country in controll,
Just like the leaders of any Islamic country.
He also protected the jews and christians, who felt the wrath of the Muslims when he was gone.

 

I know about the teachings of Jesus. Is Grace and Mercy offered in the Koran?

 

I was raised a devout Lutheran - and have close relatives who are ministers. I no longer subscribe to organized religious. Part of the reason for this is because of reason for this is because of the lack of logic and reason.

You can believe what you like on a personal basis - the question I have been addressing is what did Jesus believe - and the conclusion that to me is painfully obvious is that Jesus taught that works was a requirement.

This also makes sense from a logical perspective. I do not believe that God - should one exist - would be void of logic and reason. it is simply not logical for someone to do horrible things all their life .. and in their dying breath confess Christ and all is wiped away. This is not what Jesus teaches. I do not even think that this is what Paul believed - not that I give any creedence to the teachings of Paul - someone that never knew Jesus and who was not part of the Church of Jerusalem.

It was secularism that made the USA the greatest nation on earth - not Christianity.

 

Except this is exactly what Jesus did for the thief crucified next to him. If you look at the Sermon on the Mount, you will find exactly ZERO references to works of any kind. About the only thing you could associate with a "work" would be mercy, and in that case, the blessing would go to those who refrain from acting, i.e., carrying out punishment. When Jesus talked about works in his message, he always associated it with those who were already saved. Their works didn't justify them, their works showed they were justified. Jesus' parable of Lazarus mentioned no works by Lazarus, only that he was poor, covered in sores, and begging for bread. But Lazarus was in heaven and the rich man was in hell. Even more, Jesus said many will come saying, "Didn't we prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name?" and Jesus said he would tell them, "I never knew ye." Works without faith won't save anyone. Faith without works will. But if you have faith and the strength (an important caveat), your works will show that you are saved.

You don't think Paul meant it? 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2

Peter acknowledged Paul's authority in the matter and he was Jesus' closest disciple.

Not a chance, or more secular societies would be greater, and they aren't. Likewise with Protestant v. Catholic countries, if Catholic doctrine was better, all those Latin American countries would be greater, and they aren't. Calvinist doctrine is what made America the greatest nation on earth, and America is the most Calvinistic country on the planet. A study found that countries that were converted by Protestants today are in better shape than those that were converted by Catholics and even those are better off than those countries that were never converted. Even in southeast Asia, the more Protestant countries (Japan & South Korea) do better than the more Catholic countries (Philippines) or Muslim countries (Indonesia). Max Weber first made the link between Protestantism and country-level economic success way back in 1904, English translation 1930: The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

 

Only if they are underage girls.

 

If you want to take Christianity for what it is, you need to take it in it's whole totality. That is why it is not a single doctrine, or a religion.....it is the total personhood of Who Jesus IS. Anything else is confusion. You speak of logic and logic is good to a point but even our logic is flawed to a large degree. The Ways of God are much higher than our own.We have hurts and wounds and impressions that influence our "logic" that causes us to stray from what is real. Look to the "personhood" of Jesus that suffered for us in the most unimaginable way and never failed. Everyone of us is completely incapable of that. Jesus gave it all for one purpose. That purpose was so that we, could once again become sons and daughters of the only Living God. .Then He ascended to the right hand of the Father where He intercedes for us that are called. The message is.....we are all called.

If we do achieve good works and turn to the idea that it is our innate goodness that achieved that.....we fail. It becomes our measuring stick and pride enters in. We compare our own goodness to the failures of others forgetting our own failures. If we acknowledge that any goodness (works) we achieve in our own lives comes from the inner workings of Grace and Mercy imparted to us through the Spirit of God, we also acknowledge that the same Spirit is ready and willing to do that work in others. This is all spelled out in the totality of God's Word and my prayer today is everyone everywhere forsake the logic of mankind and turn to God. That goes for me as well. I fail every day yet my own "logic" tells me how to overcome. Submission is the hard part. A Christian must "crucify " himself daily with Christ in order to overcome. That is the only hard part but it is the Way we overcome the failures of this world.

That is my take of the totality of God. It might seem too simple to some, but it is void of any pride.

 

Nobody has corrected me, as there is nothing to correct. Jesus was quite clear. He is not abolishing the old law.

 

What is it about people they will not grasp God in His totality? They remain selective.

 

Well, we are talking about fictional characters here. And in the book of fiction, Jesus told you specifically that he is not abolishing the old law.

 

LOLOL

and which of the prophecies were not fulfilled by the time of his death.

 

Is English your second language?