Here is a video that gives some detail about how Islam originated I think I had not thought about that subject very much and had sort of assumed the more or less conventional story... and assumed that story was well documented. This turns out not to be true, if you happen to try to watch this video, The somewhat arcane bulk of the presentation is actually about Christian sects that preceded Islam among the Arabs. I also find this to be interesting because we often assume that there is some sort us unified Christian tradition that has come down to us. In talking about Arabian Christian sects... this speaker coincidentally goes into great detail about the sometimes very contentious relationships between a whole range of Christian ideas that competed outside what we today would presume to be main stream Christianity
Muhammad used Christianity as a template for Islam. Both regard the Torah as inspired - both worship the God of Abraham. Just as Christianity introduced a new prophet in Jesus - Islam introduced a new prophet in Muhammad. The use of religion to control the masses predates Christianity by many millennia. The Pharaoh's and Kings of old were very engaged in trying to figure out how to keep the masses pacified - for if the people revolt - they not only kill you - but your family- advisers and so on. Religion was one such mechanism. The ancient Egyptians had the concept of "Maat" - like Karma - at the end of days your deeds were weighed on the scales of Justice - if you were found too light - you were fed to the monster - but that was it. As time passed the "fear factor" in religious thought evolved. Zoroastrianism round 1000 BC was one of the first to introduce the concept of eternal torture in the afterlife. This fear - of eternal damnation - is a powerful subconscious motivator. By the time we get to Christianity - when the Church got power round 325 AD - The fear factor has involved further. This time however - it is no longer only about deeds .. if you "Question" or "Disbelieve" - certain tenets from some holy book - you will suffer eternal torture. It is a subtle switch but very effective -- this fear - is lodged deep in the subconscious - when the adherent comes across information that conflicts with religious dogma - the fear reaction is triggered and they try to avoid the bad thought - and /or demonize the messenger. We see this in these threads all the time Another subtle switch occurs when some leader - touting themselves as spokesperson for God - Pontifex Maximus as used to be the title of the Pope - switches if from "questioning some tenets in the holy book" to " Questioning some human interpretation or created dogma in relation to that holy book" Muhammad took the "fear factor" to new heights - every second page of the Qu'ran - do this and you will roast over the eternal flame - do that and you will suffer eternal torture -- on and on .. page after page. It is quite a terrifying book I can get into other mind control techniques used in religion - right up to the point where the adherent is willing to kill in the name of God - call it "ideology for the Martyr" The root of this sophisticated mind control technique is as described above.
I think the template was Judaism given the strict religious laws of both religions. Both stoned people and even have dietary laws. Indeed Islam reminds me of the old Judaism.
For sure with the Strict Sharia stuff - but for introducing a new prophet and the "Believe or suffer eternal torture" or "Question and suffer eternal torture" was right from the pages of Christianity - Judaism does not have a hell. Jews are raised to question everything - even God.
Us Jews don’t practice the barbaric stuff we had a reformation but islam has not Jews must ban circum
I'm cut - perfectly fine with it ... think its better .. are you M/F ? I was mainly referring to the aspect of "mind control" in Christianity and Islam. Adherents are taught that if one "Questions" or "Disbelieves" certain tenets of some holy book - the worst thing the mind can imagine will happen to you - Eternal torture in the afterlife - forever and ever. This is a sophisticated mind control technique - the fear gets lodged deep into the subconscious of the adherent. When the adherent comes across information that conflicts with doctrine - the fear response is triggered and they will try to avoid the "bad thought" as this thought might lead to Eternal Torture. Judaism does not have this - adherents are taught to question everything - even God.
Not to my knowledge The God of the Jews is the God of Abraham - and the God of Abraham was "EL" - Enlil - Chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. In Psalm 82 - YHWH is speaking before the divine Council - the head of which is El. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf Do note the quality of the reference ! Talmud Claims they are chosen by God - sfar as I know. Jesus got close though - especially in some of the non-canonical texts - going from memory but something like - "People will say god is here god is there" followed by some analogy that God is inside you. - don't remember the exact phrasing. So take from El what you like - Take from Jesus what you like - but - don't listen to man made dogma suggesting that we know anything for sure about EL - about Jesus - that is a mystery - what do we know of him - or if he even existed. To me this is interesting but - matters not in the grand scheme of things. There is some good knowledge the NT - a summary of sorts of what humanity has learned. As the good Rabbi Hillel would say - 110 BC - 10 CE - when asked to sum up the Talmud - " Do not do to others that which you hate - the rest is just commentary - now go and Learn" Jesus says - Matt 7:12 - "Do unto others what you would have done to you - this is the rule that sums up the Law and the Prophets" This is said near the end of the Sermon on the mount - where he summarizes what it takes to get through the pearly gates. Jesus goes into more detail by restating the rule numerous ways - Love Neighbor as Thyself - Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock - Judge not lest you be judged - take log out of own eye before picking spek out of brothers .... with commentary on each. And that is all you need to know - follow the golden rule - and things will be golden. This rule was found in Hamurrabi's law code 1800 BC (and we can surmise it existed much earlier) - many other law codes had this rule - including Mosaic Law - which of course came centuries after Hammurabi. Buddha cited this rule - Confucius - and many others. Oddly enough - it is even Muhammad uttered this rule - and every Muslim will tell you that there is no compulsion in Islam. Islam has become a complete anathema to this rule - of course - ... but its there - so perhaps there is hope. Is simple on the surface - but there is more depth in this rule - Yoda - " a rule very hard to follow it is" . But that's it - that is all that matters about religion - that is what God wants - what the Universe wants - and what you want. It is the measure - it is the balance - by which deeds are weighed - and not even the majority of Christianity believe in the absurd "Sola Fide" doctine - salvation by faith alone.
As we all should be - did you have a point beyond this ? It is a relative scale you now - a spectrum - or perhaps even a continuum. When I try and convince you to some product is good - that is a form of trying to influence - advertizing is the science of how do we move peoples thoughts our direction. Obedience - It is good to Obey good law - but that is not interesting - the interesting question is "what constitutes bad law".
Recall the details of the fairy tale. The Jesus character was a Jew and he claimed to have been at least God's son if not God himself.
That's how the story goes - but this does not mean Jesus called other Jews Gods. Regardless - I care not - whether it is from Buddha, Jesus, or Hamurrabi - The Golden rule should be followed.
Hehe, it’s always fun to see what the ordinary Western secularist has to say about Islam (and religion in general). Just smile and nod...
Yes .. smile and nod - in a desperate attempt to make the bad thoughts to away . Now what was it with which you take umbrage - Were you not aware of the sophisticated mind control techniques embedded within Islam ?
What bad thoughts would those be; that your insipidly secular understanding of certain Islamic concepts are just so... cringeworthy?
Just read the last post more carefully - and unblock that brain. Telling a child - that if they "question" or "do not believe" certain tenets of some holy book - or human interpretation - that they will suffer the most horrible fate the mind can imagine - is a sophisticated mind control technique.
This is your own wacky, secular interpretation of Islamic justice in the afterlife, and your views are based off a few random verses you read in the Quran. Unlock the brain indeed....
Dude - learn the formula before you go claiming it doesn't apply to your recipe. Are you claiming that there is no punishment in the afterlife in Islam ? OK - do tell - educate me -
Muhammad is not the one to blame. Others added the distortions later and turned it into the mess that it is.
Could well be - this does not change the fact that the religious doctrine of Islam - where ever it came from - is steeped in sophisticated mind control techniques.
As the Quran repeatedly states, people wrong their own souls. People punish themselves; and people destroy themselves (whether in this world, or the next). The idea that Allah is some old guy in heaven who gets emotional if you disobey him is sadly how most people (Muslim or not) view God nowadays. Allah is not a god, hence the phrase “la illaha il Allah”- or ‘there is no god but Allah.’ Allah is Truth; Allah is Reality; Allah is the only real existence. But I digress. The Quran warns mankind to take heed of their Lord, because this life is temporary, and the next one is forever. No, not because Allah is an egomaniac, but because attachment and entanglement to the worldly life can cause major pain in the next. For example, a couple in a relationship will feel pangs of pain when they separate. For some, the pain is so much that they kill themselves. Similarly, a person who lives just for physical pleasure will feel the pain when the material world ends. This is because instead of spending some time reflecting and elevating his soul, he was busy consuming and entertaining himself. And when all that goes away in an instant- you bet it hurts! As you can see, from this context, it doesn’t really matter whether you believe in Allah or not. Allah is Reality, and everyone- whether Muslim or not- will have themselves reflected in this Reality. And a Muslim is one who submits to Reality, not to personalities (Judaism; Christianity; the Buddha; etc).
All this and you failed to answer the question - Tell us what happens to those who "do not believe" or go against the tenets of Islam - complete with examples from the Qu'ran.
