I guess to some extent I feel a bit similar to you in that when I first came on line I was willing to believe that Israeli's did want a solution. At that time they were saying they were going to give the settlements back. Really it has just been a big farce for Israel to get more and more land and has been hell of earth for the Palestinians. If you genuinely believe that I think it is just propaganda you have been drinking - made all the easier as after Oslo you hardly have any contact with the Palestinians - both to understand the hellishness of the conditions they are put under or even to think they are a threat. Israel has no motivation to want change. They cannot see anything they will gain from it. Indeed they would lose. Not that what they are taking they have any right to but the US has been supporting them colonising another people's land and supporting anything they do to achieve that. Israel needs to see she has something to lose and that is the reason for BDS. What has caused genuine difficulties was the division of the Palestinians through the US/Israel funded attempted Coup as well as the decision of the EU to stop working for a peaceful resolution and let Israel do what she wants. It has been a process which has allowed Israel to act with impunity. So, want to change things? Want the Palestinians to get united and get themselves organised? You could begin by releasing Marwan Barghouti
And from my perspective the Palestinians have no reason to negotiate now when their diplomacy is making an effort to enable them 1949 lines, what reason do they have for an agreemnet on less till they exhausted that as well, Perhaps Marwan Barghouti will lead the Palestinians one day and perhaps not, I have no favourites here and no expectations from either side.
Ah so you believe it is the Israelis who do not want to negotiate. I agree. The Palestinians tried that for 20 years, offered the kitchen sink but no agreement from Israel. Meanwhile you, Israel were putting in your 'facts on the ground' as you colonised another people's land stealing their resources, blowing up their houses, killing them and doing any thing else you wanted to do with a defenceless people.Sometimes when you (Israel) killed someone a rocket would come over from Gaza, then you (Israel) really whooped it up as you went off killing mainly women and children while sitting on a hill singing about how there would be no need for schools in Gaza any more as all the children would be dead. Nothing to do with your favourites Gilos. If you did want the situation resolved you would release him but it is all right I know you do not, which is why I asked you. If you did, you would have agreed he should be released.
So, go to one of the neighboring countries and try walking around town wearing a yarmulke,a cross, or a shirt saying that you are openly gay and get back to me.
If we tried to erase them we would have 30 years ago and you'd be talking about women rights in Iran.
We always willing to negotiate but the conditions for retreat from land, where from and the rights in those places changed alot since the 90's back when many of us thought we can trust them for peace, not the case since Barak days. I dont know who you are qouting, your stories are always filled with handicap kids being raped and hanged while soldiers laugh, honestly, would you trust a peace with us if you belive all those stories ? Why do I need to release a murderer ? I know your terms and they are unacceptable, I dont need Baragutti to repeat the same unacceptable conditions.
You are simply repeating yourself. now you are lying. I only mention it when it is so. You must know perfectly well about your people sitting on the hill every night watching Gaza go up in smoke and singing songs about how there would be no need for schools in Gaza now that they all would be dead. (Israel did of course make sure You Tube removed these videos but they were well seen by that time and what was them are in threads on this forum) Peace protesters faced attack and loss of their jobs during this 'war', taxi drivers were being stopped and asked whether they were Jews with repercussions on those who were not, people who did not approve of the slaughter were losing their jobs. Well on your road to fascism by this time. You yourself were wanting everyone who had anything to do with Hamas killed despite the reality that the people who kidnapped and killed the teenage settlers were a rogue group which Israel knew had a tendency to do something to stop moves by Hamas for peace. I will never forget how much you were for this mass killing. Now this time of course was a very dangerous time for Israel as Hamas and Fatah had formed a Unity Government which was accepted by both the US and the EU and Israel would have had to start genuine peace talks. That was the reason for the 2014 massacre in Gaza. A 'war' which was started by Israel. There is absolutely no evidence that Marwan Barghouti is a murderer. He denies the charges. To you there is one rule for Zionists and another for the Indigenous people they are taking their homeland from. 2nd article http://jfjfp.com/?p=91922 https://972mag.com/will-the-new-yor...ent-pasts-of-israeli-contributors-too/126707/ https://medium.com/@thepalestinepro...-mandela-49dab59a768d[/quote][/quote][/quote] Release Marwan Barghouti
Yea? maybe you are as well I meant wild and harsh accusations based on hear-say, forcing fathers to rape daughters, hanging sick jandicap children, horrors with no backing . They dont go "every evening" to see Gaza bombed, they went there during the "war" and after 30 days of hiding in their own shelters, watching the enemy getting bombed themselves helped their fears, I wont judge them while there are Palestinian mothers that raise their children to be Shahids, those Israelis are still 10 notches better than Palestinians at their worst. Then go ahaed and raise this subject again, when did I say I want everyone that got to do with Hamas dead ? during that event I strongly supported going in the WB and ARESSTING each Hamas militants, not thier hate mongering teachers or fanatic preachers, MILITANTS, I also supported bombing Gaza in order to stop their bombings on us. Listen, America and the EU can both stand on their heads and they still wouldnt get those rediculous pre-67 lines, the "acceptance" of Hamas - PLO unity - never happened because there never was such unity, who do you think pinned point those 400 Hamas militants that Israel arrested ? oh yea....unity my ass, if they wanted to unite no one could have stopped them, they just need to agree on one leaders and that's that. if the Ziuonists could have managed one leader from Austria to the entire Europe I'm sure the Palestinians would have handled 40 Km. No evidance that you will accept you mean..... He is in the lower 100 things I care about.
The one about asking a father to rape his own daughter and forcing him to watch while they raped her with a stick is an example of the torture which Israel does on the Palestinians it is occupying. I did provide a link for this. Here it is again http://jfjfp.com/?p=91875 This I have no memory of though certainly the UN does criticise Israel for the torture of children. I suspect you are making this up. Please provide the incident so that I can find out what it is about. I generally am very good at providing sources, you however not so. Israel's torture of Palestinians including Palestinian children is well documented. Please it is well past time to pretend there is anything moral about the way Israel operates. Now if you were even horrified and worked to change such things that would be different but you are complicit in them either by denying or condoning. as I believe I said. They went up the hill to have a ball and to celebrate the killing of the people of Gaza in particular the children on whom they made up a song on how Gaza would need no more schools as their would b e no more children. Is it actually possible to be more sick than that yet no condemnation from you. https://electronicintifada.net/blog...-orgasm-israelis-celebrate-slaughter-facebook Lets not forget that your current 'Justice' Minister was calling for the killing of the mothers of Palestinians who were fighting back. Lets not forget that one of your ministers was calling for a total genocide of all in Gaza who could be seen to have any feeling for Hamas, which when you are slaughtering them is most, and rounding up the rest and expelling them. Here are your hateful people who you are defending (subtitles available) Oh boy, here you really are supporting your sickos. Given you agree does it help you Gilos to sing songs about how you are killing all the children of Gaza. It was Israelis who were killing civilians let us be clear on that. The Israelis killing 500 children and at least the same number of adults while leaving thousands with life changing injuries in a hell hole they had made unfit for human habutation. (no doubt as the intent is to take back to get control of the oil) Israel, not Hamas, orchestrated the latest conflict in Gaza Of course Israelis who start a war against a civilian population and who sign songs about killing all the children and who advocate killing the mothers of those who fight back are much more preferable to you than people trying to survive your brutality. Your only hope at the moment is the rise of fascism to join you from the west. You kill over 500 children, injure thousands for life, leave tens of thousands totally traumatised and all you can do is make excuses for those who celebrate this killing and sing songs about the genocide of children and here you are getting pretty near agreement with your justice minister of the killing of the Mothers of Palestinian Fighters. You better hope you never get back what you give. Before the fighting began. In discussion I had with you. You could not resist. You refused to look at all the evidence that you were on the wrong road. You excused the activities of your soldiers in the West bank which I think resulted in the murder of nine or ten Palestinians at least one of them a young child as well as looting. Do a search you will find it. I am not answering the rest of that because it goes against what you said here. You are making it up. I seem to remember you even suggesting that the gay Palestinian boy who was burnt alive was probably killed by Palestinians. Where was your anger for him. Would not exist as you have dehumanised these people so that you can feel good about taking over their homeland. http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/tomorrow-children-israeli/ He had no defence. The evidence was of the flimsiest manner that is what impartial observers said. He says he is innocent. Avnery says even if he was guilty of it so was Begin. That is why I said you have one rule for the indigenous population and another for zionists. He is the recognised person who can pull the Palestinians together that, not whether he did or did not organise this is why he is in jail and on hunger strike. He even still believes a two state solution is possible, You should be gagging to get him out. Instead no doubt Israel will deliberately let him die in order to get mass violent demonstrations and allow them their last genocide/ethnic cleansing. Israel wants Eretz Israel. That is why it has held people prisoner for 50 years. That is why every few years it goes into Gaza killing and mutilating thousands of women and children.
Melodramatic, exaggerated hoo hah. There are 6200 prisoners.... not 62 million. You make it sound like the Jewish ss is rounding them all up on trains. Take a deep breathh and look for the xanax.
Your little tirade with no reference means nothing and cannot be in response to the post above yours as it has no relevance. If however that is how my post made you think, then possible a good idea to think a little longer.
My reference IS YOUR OWN SOURCE which states there are only 6200 prisoners. YOUR OWN SOURCE. Given the state of things in that region, I'm amazed there are so few. Read YOUR OWN SOURCE next time.
My you are so angry. I have watered the garden, picked some broccoli and had a bath while this has been simmering away. You are the person who brought in the number of 62,000,000. That all belongs to you. However another fact is that around 40% of the Palestinian males have spent time in an Israeli Jail. That make you more happy? Of course they all are prisoners, that is just the number who have spent time in their occupiers jail.
Are you sure you know whatcha talking about, moon? UN warns of rapid Palestinian population growth A senior U.N. official says that a new U.N. study projecting rapid growth in the Palestinian population should serve as a "wake up call" to Israel and the international community https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...-warns-of-rapid-palestinian-population-growth Israelis are not doing very good job, trying to erase Palestinians, do they?
They've had a fair measure of success - and they keep trying. Ya gotta hand it to ' plucky little Israel'- the way that it continues its ethnic cleansing program regardless of setbacks.
Honestly, moon - I've tried to understand how can Israel have "a fair measure of success" ethnic cleansing Palestinians, while Palestinian population grows by leaps and bounds, and again hurt myself. Please, have mercy on me?
Of course I can, that part is easy. It is you who can't seems to get a grasp on reality. Israelis cannot possibly have any measure of success ethnic cleansing Palestinians when their numbers are increasing. So, either Israelis do not know what they're doing, are not successful, or they're not really ethnic cleansing Palestinians. Which one will it be?
No I dont support the violent cries or songs extreme right fanatics have, you simply are too baised to realy see things the way they are, there are racists and there are terrorists like price tag - I condem, I seperate them from Shderot ppl that went up the hill to watch Gaza bombed, I assure you that Brits rejoiced as well when Germany was bombed, it's a natural response to fear and to a helpless feeling of being bombed yourself, but I dont expect you to understand it requires objectivity and willingness for a greater scope that you deny on principle, but that doesnt make you more just or moral. As long as Hamas is in control - its a continious conflict, Israel may decide to draw fuss from the wound at times but while they reject Israel I dont see how we can be wrong by doing so, it's a time bomb why should we allow it to blow on the terrorist terms ? Seems to me they send their kids to die enough, we dont need to make plans to kill their kids, the web serves their propaganda well, grab a knife and get to Heaven. Also, as far as I can tell Israel is heading East, we slowly detach ourselves from Europe - and not because of BDS but due to your crisses the market is very unstable - China, India and Africa are the new markets althou Africa is just seed planting now, maybe "Da Joos" can help it prosper. what you elect over there is no concern of ours - what would you think Le Pen could have done "for Israel" that we would want her ? The Israeli -French Jews did not vote for her. I remember Hamas did not take responsibilty but approved the act and the terrorists did not act on behalf of Hamas but were it's foot soldiers - so yea I didnt accept this wriggling. Also shooting ppl that attack soldiers with flame bottles is not murder. nine or ten or fifteen cases like that may well happen, its the other side of the "violent resistance" coin. I did suggest that ; I suggested his own family burned him for family honor and I was wrong - what of it ? where was my anger ? I condemed his murderer and those that burned the baby and his family as well, I will have nothing to do with such ppl, what would you expect me to do about it otherwise ? I dont go attacking Arabs after their terror attack and I wont attack Jews after their attack either.... Oh no, he REJECTED his defence, that's not the same thing he rejected to be judged in an Israeli court as he reject the "Zionist entity", only God can judge me and so on...., perhaps he will lead the PLO one day I know he is one of the contenders, but Im sorry I lost faith in a peace agreement for the forseen future, I dont think Baragotti is THE MAN for peace - got no reason to think so he never reached to us if not thru a bomb or a gun, but, I hope he wont die of hunger such end will bring me no joy.
I hate to interrupt your point, but someone needs to bring up the total lack of ethnic diversity in the neighboring countries. Perhaps a stronger term like, Ethnic Sterilization is more appropriate for Muslim-controlled land.
Well- we'll just have to wait for some crazed and degenerate pro-fascist with a keyboard to turn up. Let me know if you spot one.