Israel pushes U.S. to War ........Again

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Grau, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    You should be more direct and honest with your posts..
    You never wrote you hitch-hiked in 1973 ( 45 years ago !!!! ) .. it sounded like it was last year.
    The Middle East is not the same dear vetern ... not even close.
    I dare you hitch-hike today ... Islam 2018 is not Islam 1973 .
    As an American you will not make it alive in Syria or Iraq.
    And it's not because USA or Israel or the freedom west... It's because the world changed.
    Europe is also not the same .. Go travel to Paris and London ... You will be amazed.
    Fly today to the Middle East .. Visit Jordan and Israel .. you will think diffrently about the ideas that are locked in your head for 45 years.
     
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see how your mistaken assumptions are the result of my being indirect or dishonest in any way.

    I am fully aware of the changes that have occurred in the Mid East as I have been following them closely since the deliberate Israeli "False Flag" attack on America's USS Liberty in an attempt to get the US to attack Egypt.

    My sources have been friends & relatives who are or have been loyal American Intelligence Officers, members of the US Military stationed in the region, residents of the Region and varied books & reliable news outlets.

    Some things never change such as Israel's repeated attempts to get America to fight their wars beginning with the Lavon Affair in the 1950s & culminating with the use of US Troops as IDF's Human Shields, today.

    Another thing that hasn't changed is your inability to refute a single fact I've cited & supported.

    Israel did in fact deceive America into attacking Iraq & use America's pro Israel MSM to whip Americans into an anti Iraq war frenzy just as both are doing the same now with the aid of paid & scripted Hasbara propaganda agents.
     
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  3. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Your sources are Ku Klux Kanne.
     
  4. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand that you must be frustrated because you are completely unable to refute the very obvious fact that Israel's Right Wing regime along with traitorous Ziono-Cons & Israel Firsters in US Government are driving America into ANOTHER war for Israel.
    However, I do not understand why mature adults are driven to dishonest slurs as I have said absolutely nothing negative about all Jews or all Israelis.
    I can only guess that as a Right Wing Israeli who is eager to sacrifice American blood for Israel's expansionist agenda, the truth is too much for you to bear.
    Am I correct?
     
  5. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Lol.
    I am Christian , Most of the time I live in Belguim.
    I hate liers.
    I hate BDS and their wall of lies.
    I know the true story behind the Palesh-tino filth Propaganda.
    You are repeating a lie because NO American did or will lose his life for Israel.
    Go visit the Middle East , get out from your 1973 dreams..
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Have you forgotten the Lavon Affair or the attack on the USS Liberty?
     
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  7. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Lavon from the 50's ?
    The period of the Bedouin Fedayeen murderers ?
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By the number of anti Palestinian, anti Islamic & anti Muslim hate screed Threads you post, you clearly hate all Muslims too.
    Carrying around so much hate is bad for your health.

    If you are really from Belgium, why are you so devoted to the agenda of Israel's extreme Right Wing?

    Finally, you cannot deny that countless Americans have died because of the influence of Israeli lobbies(1) and propagandists:

    "Iraq war: A war made for Israel"
    https://ahtribune.com/opinion/108-iraq-war-a-war-made-for-israel.html
    EXCERPT "According to Steinberg, the Blair dossier was “cooked-in-Israel propaganda” to drive the US to invade Iraq.

    Complementing Blair’s hoax, US Zioncons waged a misleading campaign to influence American public opinion and to deceive officials on the cost of war and its aftermath.

    On July 11, 2002, Richard Perle a Pentagon official, who was on Israeli Premier Benjamin Netanyahu’s payroll in mid-90s, professed the war will end “after the first whiff of gunpowder.” CONTINUED



    (1) “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

    AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003
     
  9. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    I think you are too smart to write BS nonsense such as "you clearly hate all Muslims too"..
    You are an American proud vetern , not a pupil.
    I am 101% devoted to the truth.
    It makes me raise an eyebrow when you repeat Harta "countless Americans have died" ... Countless ... oh dear ... Oh my... did you add 1861 American civil war to the numbers ?
    I know what's going on in the Middle East.
    I know the truth about the Palesh-tino Jihado Islamo wall of lies.
     
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I am mistaken about your hating all Muslims, I apologize. I only based that opinion on the fact that of the 25 Threads in the Mid East section, 12 Threads have been started by you that are all strongly anti Muslim - pro Israel and intended to incite fear of and hatred for Muslims or express your own hatred of Palestinians.

    For example, in your most recent thread: "US halts funding to UN agency aiding Palestinians", you feature "clapping hands" in applauding an immoral act by the Israeli owned & operated US Government's decision to make life even harder for Palestinian victims of ethnic cleansing.
    Only hatred would incite someone to applaud the increased misery of some of history's most criminally persecuted & unfortunate people.
    In other words you express delight in their suffering.
    If not hatred, then what?

    I have been to a Palestinian refugee camp in S. Lebanon, have seen their misery first hand and I doubt that things have changed much over the decades.

    How do you know the truth to the "Palesh-tino Jihado Islamo wall of lies" if you have never been to the region and only heard Hasbara propaganda?

    I base the fact that countless Americans have died for Israel partly on the reality that AIPAC, "the 52" & traitorous Zionists in US Government pushed America into the Iraq War that only benefited Israel(1)

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
    Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

    It is only because of Israel's machinations that the US remains in the Region and is currently in Israel to die for Israel (2)

    I am disgusted with AIPAC & traitorous Zionists in US Government precisely because I have spend enough time in V.A. hospitals with younger combat Veterans who were burned, mutilated, blinded & traumatized because of AIPAC's "Quiet successes" in driving America to War.
    I am fairly certain that you would share my sentiments if you had seen what I have seen, actually been to the Mid East and closely followed events in the region for over 50 years.



    (1) "Israel is the real winner of America's war on Iraq"
    https://www.facts-are-facts.com/news/israel-is-the-real-winner-of-americas-war-on-iraq#.W451lCMwi_U

    (2)
    "Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel"

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ys-american-troops-should-be-ready-die-israel

    EXCERPT "US Third Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Richard Clark spelled out just such a scenario wherein US troops could be asked to fight and to die for defense of (America)* Israel - even to the point of being placed under Israeli commanders responsible for battlefield decision making.

    US Third Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Richard Clark spelled out just such a scenario wherein US troops could be asked to fight and to die for defense of America Israel - even to the point of being placed under Israeli commanders responsible for battlefield decision making.

    his words come as Israel is already actively involved on two fronts: Gaza and Syria. And according to many analysts and reports, including one recently leaked internal Israeli defense memo, Israel is ramping up for devastating engagement along a third front as Tel Aviv continues to view Lebanese Hezbollah to its north as the prime threat to Israeli security.

    Should broader war break out between Israel, Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria, will US troops who find themselves working closely with the IDF be forced to obey the commands of Israeli generals, even to the point of death? We can't find anything in the oath of enlistment or the Constitution [federal statute in 10 U.S.C. 502, and based in Article VI of the Constitution] that requires US citizens or soldiers to defend and fight for a foreign nation."CONTINUED
    *(America) is scratched out in the original article
     
  11. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    I accept your apology.
    First of all, I am glad that you follow my threads.. feel free to give Likes from time to time.
    If you read them carefully, you will clearly notice that the threads are not about hating Islam But trying to put an end to Lies on behalf of Islam.
    I find it weird that you and some few others here cannot stand Pro Israeli posts .. Well there are Millions like me my friend.
    I will clap my hands 24/7 to US halts funding to UN agency aiding Palestinians !
    I will tell you why .. Because UNWRA is not helping the Gazan Bedouins !! They are doing the opposite.
    Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.
    The Paleshtinos recieved billions .. Where is all the money ? in tunnels ? in rockets ?
    I didn't visit the Middle East in 1973 .. I have visited it several times in the last few years .. go Mr. Grau and
    visit Ramallah or Nables .. you will be shocked .. the night clubs are full and everyone is eating Baklawa.
    Go my friend .. buy a ticket ..
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Lavon Affair was in Egypt and designed to hurt the US relationship with Egypt.
     
  13. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dear Grau, I feel sorry for you and your fellow veterans. You suffered so much for the sake of Israel. And still, there is no end in sight yet.

    In a way I feel you Americans are getting what you have dished out to others... just not enough yet, it has to get much harder and bloodier for you, so you will finally learn The Silver Rule of Ethics:
    Don’t Do Unto Others as You Wouldn’t Want Others to Do Unto You


    You might have heard or read that your country was fighting the Germans during the Second World War. First of all, there was no reason your country should have gone to war against Germany!

    What your country did to the German population were massive war crimes by today's standards.

    Eisenhower, the commander in charge of the defeated German armies, was especially brutal to the surrendered soldiers. MY Soldiers! MY brothers! So young!
    They only defended their country and were so degraded, disrespected, tortured and Starved to death by the Americans! 1.7 million of them!
    http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/eisenhowers-rhine-meadows-death-camps/115927

    One day the Americans might painfully remember what they did to other nations and other people, but likely they will have no clue and couldn't care less either. There are simply too many wars to keep track of.

    ← US wars since 9/11 attacks cost $1.6 trillion: Analysis
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly!

    "Israel’s ultimate purpose was to destabilize Nasser’s relationships with both the U.S. and Britain and compel the British to withdrawal from their bases on the Suez Canal...) (1)

    This particular firebombing of US Installations in Egypt by Israeli agents dressed as Egyptians was was not as deadly as other terrorist acts against America & the West the Israeli government has carried out to shape public opinion, instigate wars & engender anti Islamic sentiment.
    Just a few of the other Israeli terrorist "False Flag" operations are listed in the same article. Others are exposed in Victor Ostrovsky's book, "By Way of Deception"

    Israel's history of extensive & blatant willingness to use terrorist acts and deception is salient to the current increasing tensions between the US & Iran in that the time is ripe for yet another Israeli terrorist False Flag deception.

    Israel* has long wanted Americans to "take out" Iran(2) & has proven that they will use any deception as a means to that end regardless of the cost to America in blood and resources.


    * By "Israel", I do not mean all Israelis as many ethical, peace seeking & rational Israelis recognize the catastrophic effects of a war with Iran.

    (1) "Israel’s Use of False Flags in Global Terrorism"
    http://americanfreepress.net/web-exclusive-israels-use-of-false-flags-in-global-terrorism/


    (2) "Israel Nudges Trump Towards War With Iran"
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/israel-nudges-trump-towards-war-with-iran/

    EXCERPT "In other words, Netanyahu wanted the United States to get rid of Iraq’s Saddam Hussein in the interest of Israeli security—and now wants us to risk another war..." CONTINUED
     
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  15. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I certainly don't want to misrepresent your views & feel that mature adults should be able to discuss any issue honestly & with civility.

    Re:
    It's not that I & others "can't stand pro Israeli posts..." as I have repeatedly stated that Israel has much to offer & its citizens are comprised of many outstanding, ethical & peace seeking individuals.

    Sadly, Israel's peace seeking Israelis are sidelined by unconditional & unlimited US Government support of Israel's aggressive, expansionist war mongers & brutal Occupiers.

    While the corrupt Netanyahu Regime may have its supporters, Israel's violent Settlers & brutal occupiers has made Israel one of the least popular countries in the world(1)

    I am surprised that you would begrudge Palestine's survivors of Israeli ethnic cleansing the pittance they receive after being robbed of their homes of generations & relegated to a hopeless existence but make no mention of the countless $ Trillions(2) extracted from Americans for illegal Settlements, acts of aggression & maintaining the longest & most brutal foreign funded Occupation in modern history.

    I'm afraid that various old wounds & injuries preclude another trip to the Mid East but because I have close relatives in America's military, I do not want them sacrificed in another disastrous war for Israel(3) because of the machinations of the same Israeli lobbies that drove America into the last war for Israel:

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

    AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003





    (1) “BBC Poll: Israel Among World's Least Popular Nations”
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/bb...tions-1.525890

    EXCERPT“The annual BBC World Service poll finds Germany most popular; only countries less popular than Israel are North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.”CONTINUED


    (2) “The Real Cost of US Support for Israel: $3 Trillion”
    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.palestine/2005-08/msg00005.html

    EXCERPT “While it is commonly reported that Israel officially receives some $3 billion every year in the form of economic aid from the U.S. government, this figure is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many billions of dollars more in hidden costs and economic losses lurking beneath the surface. A recently published economic analysis has concluded that U.S. support for the state of Israel has cost American taxpayers nearly $3 trillion ($3 million millions) in 2002 dollars. “CONTINUED


    (3) "Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel"
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ys-american-troops-should-be-ready-die-israel
     
  16. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello Jazz,

    While Israeli lobbies cost some Americans more than others, I am most concerned for the younger generations of America who seem destined to bear the brunt of America's current, Israeli government manipulated "Israel First" policy driven by both foreign & domestic Zionist agents.

    All Americans, whether they know it or not, are endangered when a president as bellicose as Trump serves as a mere puppet to an even more bellicose Netanyahu whose apocalyptic hyperbole fails to mask his own martial agenda to drive the US to war with Iran.

    Before we wake up to another Israeli orchestrated war, Americans need to ask themselves: "How did a country thousands of miles away that has attacked no one in 300 years & is only guilty of ejecting a brutal US installed tyrant become the burning focus of US imposed, draconian sanctions that punish our real allies, engender further global resentment, cost the US $ Billions(2) & only cause suffering among Iran's people?"

    With US, Israeli & Saudi support of Regional terrorists(3), (4), (5) the tiresome mantra that Iran is the "chief sponsor of terrorism" rings especially hollow.

    Another fraudulent casus belli has to do with Iran's fledgling nuclear program however whatever nuclear dreams Iran may have are dwarfed by Israel's very real bristling nuclear arsenal & threatening "Sampson Option" that endangers the world.

    So what is the real reason that Trump-Bolton-Pompeo & US politicians are so obsessed with squeezing distant Iran until it bleeds?

    Netanyahu & the 52 Israeli lobbies that drive US Foreign policy demand it.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Yes, I am aware of America's war crimes during WW 2 and in other instances and would be glad to discuss that topic in an appropriate thread.

    Perhaps part of America's punishment for its past crimes is Trump as I can think of no other president whose Foreign Policy has done more to alienate America's genuine allies while even further inflaming anti American sentiment among the world's 1.8 billion Muslims.
    As US & Russian forces gather in the Mid East for the showdown in Idlib, Netanyahu's mercurial & bellicose Trump is the least suitable player when a calm, rational & independent thinking Commander in Chief is called for.





    (1) "How Netanyahu Pulls Trump’s Strings"
    https://consortiumnews.com/2017/10/15/how-netanyahu-pulls-trumps-strings/

    EXCERPTS "Since Sept. 18, when the two men met in New York around the United Nations General Assembly, Netanyahu has been pulling Trump’s strings on almost every foreign policy issue.

    Trump further showed that he is following Netanyahu’s marching orders with the extremist speech about Iran on Friday, essentially repeating all the Israeli propaganda lines against Iran and burning whatever bridges remained toward a meaningful diplomatic approach.

    Although dressing up his capitulation to Netanyahu in tough-guy phrasing, Trump is doing what most U.S. politicians do – they grovel before Bibi Netanyahu."CONTINUED


    (2) "Sanctions on Iran Could Cost U.S., European Companies Billions"
    https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/05/09/sanctions-iran-cost-u-s-european-companies-billions/

    EXCERPT "European and American companies could lose billions of dollars in commercial deals canceled and a major new export market undercut by the U.S. decision to re-impose sanctions on Iran."EXCERPT


    (3) "ISIS is a US-Israeli creation"
    http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/top-10-proofs-isis-us-israeli-creation/



    (4) "Why Does the US Continue to Arm Terrorists in Syria?"
    https://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-the-us-continue-to-arm-terrorists-in-syria/




    (5) "Israeli Defense Minister Confirms Israel Backing Of ISIS in Syria"
    https://geopolitics.co/2017/04/27/israeli-defense-minister-confirms-israel-backing-of-isis-in-syria/


    (6) "Senate passes Israel lobby bill to impose new sanctions on Iran"
    https://israelpalestinenews.org/senate-passes-bill-impose-new-sanctions-iran/


    PHOTO CAPTION: "(Right to Left) Senators Ben Cardin (D-Maryland), Bob Menendez (D-New Jersey), Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Bob Corker (R-Tennessee). Corker, Cardin and Menendez authored the anti-Iran bill."CONTINUED
     
  17. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Trump is the best thing America needed.
    Especially after Hussain Obamba the looser.
    Hussian Obamba is responsible for making USA weak.
    You can agree with Mr. Trump, and you can disagree .. One thing we can agree - He is a man of his word !
     
  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know if you've had time to read excerpts from Bob Woodward's book, "Fear; Trump in the White House" but many Americans are terrified with someone as unstable, angry & bellicose as Trump as Commander in Chief when regional tensions are running so high.

    Trump may have come through on some of his promises but when you've been following Mid East events as long as I have, you come to realize that regardless of a politician's campaign promises, those promises are meaningless when they conflict with what Netanyahu, AIPAC and "the 52" want.

    "Donald Trump Threatening Syria Directly Contradicts His Campaign Promises"
    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...rectly-contradict-his-campaign-vows-1.5490349

    EXCERPT "Donald Trump brought the United States even closer to full-scale intervention in the Syrian conflict this week, with a direct threat of force against Syria’s President Bashar Assad’s regime. His move put the U.S. on a collision course with Russia.

    The American president’s aggressive posturing and military actions are taking many by surprise. He had campaigned on a vehement anti-war stance (except for when it came to bombing ISIS), had promised to work with Russia in Syria, and had been a fierce critic of any U.S. involvement in Syria during President Barack Obama’s administration."CONTINUED
     
  19. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Newsflash, The Ottoman Empire went and handed Britain the keys who gave it to the Zionists...

    What I want to know is, Who the Hell lived in Saudi Arabia before Britain gave that to a bunch of Ultra Conservative Islam wackos BEFORE we/the UK knew they had oil...
    If UK'd known then what we know now, Saudi Arabia would be White Christian like Canada and Australia...

    Wanna blame Israel, then blame the UK, and wanna blame my country for doing what countries did back then and throughout History, then **** you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Saudi Arabia didn't exist as a country / Kingdom until 1930:

    "Pre-Islamic Arabia"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Saudi_Arabia

    EXCERPT "There is evidence that human habitation in the Arabian Peninsula dates back to about 63,000 years ago.[2][3]

    Archaeology has revealed some early settled civilizations: the Dilmun civilization on the east of the Arabian Peninsula, Thamud north of the Hejaz, and Kindah kingdom and Al-Magar civilization in the central of Arabian Peninsula. The earliest known events in Arabian history are migrations from the peninsula into neighbouring areas." CONTINUED

    Meanwhile, please clarify what your post has to do with Right Wing Israeli lobbies & pro War, US Ziono-Cons pushing America into a disastrous war with Iran. (See OP).

    I'm sure you remember how America was deceived into going to war against Iraq via AIPAC lobbying(1) , fraudulent Israeli Intelligence & traitorous, US Ziono-Cons like Bolton, Feith, Pearle, Wolfwitz etc.

    Well, the chances of an even more disastrous conflict are even heightened due to Trump's subservience to Netanyahu(2) and US Troops being stationed in Israel as IDF's Human Shields(3).

    Do you want even more young American G.I.s to die in another war for Israel?



    (1) “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”
    AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003


    (2) "How Netanyahu Pulls Trump’s Strings"
    https://consortiumnews.com/2017/10/15/how-netanyahu-pulls-trumps-strings/

    EXCERPTS "Since Sept. 18, when the two men met in New York around the United Nations General Assembly, Netanyahu has been pulling Trump’s strings on almost every foreign policy issue.

    Trump further showed that he is following Netanyahu’s marching orders with the extremist speech about Iran on Friday, essentially repeating all the Israeli propaganda lines against Iran and burning whatever bridges remained toward a meaningful diplomatic approach.

    Although dressing up his capitulation to Netanyahu in tough-guy phrasing, Trump is doing what most U.S. politicians do – they grovel before Bibi Netanyahu."CONTINUED


    (3) "Top US General Says American Troops Should Be Ready To Die For Israel"

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ys-american-troops-should-be-ready-die-israel
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  21. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for your superb response. I could never express myself so eloquently and still remain on the floor of facts.
    I consulted Uri Avnery, an old Israeli warrior. Here you can read what he has to say on the subject:

    Who is the Vassal? Israel, the US or Iran

    “If you want to understand the policy of a nation, look at the map,” Napoleon is supposed to have said.

    It is good advice.

    If you are living in Israel, these days, you get the impression that the huge State of Israel is dictating to its American vassal what to do about Iran.

    President Donald Trump listens and complies. Bibi the Great tells him to tear up the Iranian deal for no obvious reason, and he obeys. He has no choice, poor man.

    But then you look at the map, and to your great surprise you discover that the USA is a huge country, while Israel is a mere speck, so small that its name has to be written outside its borders, in the sea.

    So what is wrong? Geography, of course, is not the only factor. Israel has some millions of faithful adherents, who are American citizens and have a lot of money. But still.

    Can it be that we got the picture wrong? That Trump is not the vassal of Netanyahu, that it’s the other way round? That Trump dictates, and Bibi, for all his bluster, just obeys?

    It would not be the first time. In ancient times, the leaders of the Jewish commonwealth in Palestine tried very hard to please the imperator (emperor?) in Rome. Nero, for example, the man who enjoyed setting fire to his own city, and to the world, while playing the flute, or whatever.

    Donald Trump is the present-day Nero, the imperator (Emperor?) of the New Rome.

    Trump’s main object in life is to get out of the Iran deal, “the worst deal ever”. Why? I have listened intently and have discerned no other reason than that the deal was forged by his hated predecessor, Barack Obama.

    What other reason was there for annulling the deal? I have heard none. The deal stopped Iran from proceeding with the building of a nuclear weapon. All experts, without exception (even in Israel) confirm that Iran has scrupulously adhered to its commitment.

    Indeed, the entire world outside the US (and Israel, of course) has now decided to go on with the deal. Germany, France and Britain, three not quite insignificant powers, believe that the deal has to be maintained. So do Russia and China, no tiny countries, either.

    Except Israel. Ah, Israel.

    Most people in Israel now believe that Benjamin Netanyahu, Bibi the Great, is really leading Trump on a leash. Bibi has such a magical hold over Trump, that the American president has to follow Israel’s lead.

    Bibi is obsessed with Iran. He wakes up in the morning with Iran and goes to sleep with Iran.

    Nobody seems to ask: Why, for God’s sake?

    Going back to Napoleon’s map: there seems to be no clash of interests between the countries of Iran and Israel. No common border. No territories of one that the other desires. Also, no natural resources of one that the other would like to get its hands on.

    Proof: not so long ago, well within my lifetime, Iran was Israel’s closest ally (except our American vassal, of course). Iran was governed by the Shah, with his beautiful uniform and his beautiful wife (please indulge me for once, dear feminists).

    Israel and Iran went to steal chickens together, as we say. The Iranians helped us to infiltrate agents into the Kurdish region of Iraq, in order to make trouble for the Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein. Later, we supported Iran in its war against Iraq, started by the same Hussein.

    In one of the greatest scandals of its time, the so-called Iran-Contra affair, Israel transferred American arms to Iran. (Iran paid for them, and the Americans used the money to illegally finance the “Contra'” war against the leftist government in Nicaragua. My friend Amiram Nir, a journalist turned government security advisor, personally delivered the arms to Tehran. (His US counterpart, Oliver North, has just been appointed to head the powerful American Rifle Association.)

    Enough amusing anecdotes. There is no basic antagonism, dictated by geography, between our two nations. So what is it?

    Well, there is ideology. The present rulers of Iran are extreme Shia Islamists. They want to become the overlords of the Arab Muslim world. The Arabs hate Israel, mainly because of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. So the Iranians pretend to be the great enemy of the “Little Satan” (their rather insulting appellation of Israel, to distinguish it from the Great Satan, the USA).

    Frankly, I think that the rulers of Iran don’t give a damn about Israel, except as an useful instrument. The hatred of Israel is a weapon in the battle with the Sunni Arab world, led by the hyper-active Saudi Crown Prince.

    (The conflict between Sunni and Shia goes back almost to the times of the Prophet, more than 15 centuries ago.)

    ***

    So why is Bibi obsessed with Iran, to such an extent that he commands his American vassal to drive towards World War III?

    Depends how cynical you are.

    If you are very cynical, you might well say that both Trump and Bibi are up to their respective necks in criminal investigations. With a bit of luck, both might end up in prison.

    What better way to divert the attention of their subjects than a little war? It is a precept that has been tried out since the beginning of the world, and it almost never fails. Who will worry about trifles like Trump’s porno stars or Bibi’s gifts from (American) billionaires, when the lives of our boys are at stake?

    The US is still far from war with Iran but we (Israelis) are not. Perhaps we are already in it, without believing it.

    These days – or should I say, these nights – our brave boys fly over Syria and bomb Iranian army installations there. Until this minute, the Iranians have not reacted, except for a feeble attempt that was quickly answered by a massive Israeli air strike.

    Why are Iranians there in the first place? It is a part of their objective to create an Iranian sphere of influence extending from Iran proper to the Mediterranean Sea. In Iraq, which has a large Shia population, they are already dominant. With the help of Russia, they are now almost dominant in Syria. In Lebanon their close allies, the Shia Hizbollah movement, controls a large part of the country and has just won the elections.

    ***

    The US does not like this at all. True, Trump has decided to withdraw from the Middle East (costs too much money), but he does not want the void to be filled by Vladimir Putin. Not at all. So he sends his boys back, and tells Israel to make the life of the Iranians in Syria hell.

    It is playing with fire (for us). Until now, the Iranians have limited their reaction to our nightly bombing of their forces to the utterance of dire threats and the ineffectual response this week. But for how much longer?

    Iran is a wise country. Whatever the bluster of the present regime, it does exercise a lot of restraint. It remembers that quite recently (just about 2500 years ago) it was a world power. It can wait. It does not satisfy Trump’s expectations. After all, how long does the USA exist?

    So we bomb. So they react with threats. So Trump is happy.

    ***

    And the Israeli public?
    One may wonder: is there such a thing?

    Some local commentators are already asking: have Israeli citizens turned into mere subjects?

    Israel is obviously on the path to war. The nightly bombing of Iranian forces is an insult to their national pride. In our region, national pride plays a large role. Our army has told the population in the north of the country to open the air-raid shelters and prepare them for use. Large anti-aircraft forces have been moved to the Syrian frontier.

    And the Israelis? They shrug their shoulders. They know that Bibi is a showman of genius. Just now he has held the country and the world in thrall with a superb TV demonstration, in which he revealed a wealth of information about Iran’s nuclear activities. The brave boys and girls of the Mossad stole this trove in Tehran and brought it to Israel, risking their lives.

    Wonderful. Except that it turned out that this trove consists of obsolete documents from before the deal, which show what everybody already knew: that Iran wanted to emulate Israel and produce its own nuclear bomb. It was to prevent this that the nuclear deal was initiated in the first place.

    But what showmanship! What a stage set! What wonderful (American) English! What perfect coordination with Trump’s decision to scuttle the deal! Can it be that the entire show was ordered by Trump?

    Some Israeli commentators pointed all this out. But there is no real opposition to Bibi in the Knesset, the popular press or on TV.

    The vast majority of the people in Israel – and everywhere else – stand at attention when the word “security” is mentioned. OK, Bibi may be a tiny bit corrupt, he may have taken some bribes here and there, but he is our commander-in-chief! He is sending our boys into battle! So hail to the Chief!

    Hail Bibi!

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/05/14/who-is-the-vassal-israel-the-us-and-iran/
    ------
    Before reading Avnery's essay I felt depressed and angry about the whole damn politics. But now, that I have digested his sense of humor, I am no longer worried. We all have to die sooner or later anyway, so why not be happy and enjoy life while we still can? Leave the judgement to God almighty, he has a much better understanding and oversight!
     
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On that note..... I should upgrade my plans to become a Proselyte to Judaism if Rabbi Alon Anava would have me.......

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/my-rosh-ha-shanah-apology-to-you-all.541433/

    My Rosh ha Shanah apology to you all




     
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  23. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I certainly respect your decision to join any of the world's religions you chose but am not quite clear as to exactly what you mean by:
    "On that note..... I should upgrade my plans to become a Proselyte to Judaism if Rabbi Alon Anava would have me......."

    I wish you the best of luck regardless of the path you chose.
     
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  24. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Technically I am a Christian Noahide.... and I am hoping that my unusual situation might convince Rabbi Alon to take me on as a student.... .in spite of the fact that perhaps ninety percent or more of Orthodox Jewish scholars do not believe that it is possible for a Christian........
    to become a Prostylite to Judaism..... without renouncing our belief that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus was Messiah the Passover Lamb.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...hua-jesus-than-any-christian-on-earth.539587/
    Could Rabbi Alon Anava be more like Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus than any Christian on earth?

    My somewhat special circumstances are hinted at here:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ah-apology-to-you-all.541433/#post-1069619060
    My Rosh ha Shanah apology to you all


     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  25. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I must confess that I was unaware of Noahidism but hope you are successful in becoming a student of Rabbi Alon.
    When you say that you would like to: "...become a Prostylite to Judaism", do you mean that you would like to become a member of the Jewish faith or that you will attempt to convert Jews to Noahidism?

    Meanwhile, what are your thoughts on the topic at hand?

    Thanks, & best of luck...
     

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