Explosion rocks arms depot north of Iraq's Baghdad

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Iranian Monitor, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    some background

    Trump has taken an insane U.S. policy towards Iran and make it even crazier, writes Daniel Lazare.
    You are the people who went against the nuclear deal after signing it. Here is the background to your desires for war.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/08/19/trumps-persian-gulf-car-crash/
     
  2. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I would not put too much faith in the opinions of someone who wants the swamp rats in washington to rewrite the Constitution in their own image

    But thats getting into domestic American issues where you dont belong
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not every day that someone comes right out and advocates for killing innocent civilians via nuclear attack but, thanks for sharing :)
     
  4. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I couldn't agree with you more on that point.
    Do what it needs to do?

    Well, I see that we do not agree on Russia's role in Syria, you and I, but if the situation was/is as I have come to believe it was then "intimidation" by an alliance could do the trick and avoid war.

    Mine too.
    I might agree but I am not sure. I still hold out for an alliance together with Russia & China to scare the pants off of Washington.
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    That is chasing something that will eventually only bite Iran. Even today, there are reports that the air strikes against the Iraqi targets allied to Iran were conducted with both US and Russian approval. Regardless of whether these reports on Iraq are accurate, in Syria, this is absolutely the case. The Russians have done a lot to drive Iran out of Syria, in part because they want Syria for themselves. But also because they have their own rather strange ties with Israel -- with many Russian oligarchs and influential people behind the scene actually dual Russian-Israeli citizens. Of course, in the case of Russia, Israel isn't the only game in town and there are plenty of folks in Russia who still see Israel the way they saw it during the 1970s and 1980s before the fall of the Soviet Union, when the latter was aligned with the front line Arab states. But things are complicated in Russia on this issue...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia has apparently given agreement for attacks on Iranians in Iraq just like she has in Syria. April last year things came to a crunch and it looked like Russia was going to stop Israeli's attacks on Iranians in Syria. She pointed out that they were battle allies and not only that it could be Russia's at the stations she bombed who would be killed. I do not know what happened. Russia did deliver the S300's after some Israeli sortie but she has allowed Israel to continue killing Iranians in Syria and now it appears Iraq too. Israel claims she needs to kill them for her 'safety'. I hear Russia has a soft spot for Israel because of all the Russian living there but I thought they were going to stop Israel's continual attacks on people who have been her allies. It does not speak well of Russia. I am unsure what happened.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  7. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Survival, yes! But relying so much upon elections is like waiting for Godot. It is so over-rated and usually solves nothing at all. It is the pseudo-Democratic "opium of the people" and serves little more than to keep the populace balmy just a little bit longer with false hope of, "We'll get 'em next time!"
     
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  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    While the Israelis have tried to use media outlets to suggest the strikes on Iraqi targets were carried out by their F-35 aircraft, presumably to show that these aircraft can be effectively operated in longer distances, leaked reports from an Iraqi investigation into the issue suggest differently.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...militia-blames-us-and-israel-on-bases-in-iraq

    Iranian-backed militia blames US and Israel for attacks on bases in Iraq
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I was reading last week that was becoming the prominent view in Iran...some thinking that even if a Dem became President it likely would not change much.
     
  10. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    What would you have Russia do? It has a small contingent in western Syria and is in no way involved in Iraq.

    Edit: these reports are from Israeli media citing unnamed western sources and, even then, only say this:

    Israel has conducted several strikes on Iranian-controlled bases in Syria and Iraq in recent weeks with permission from the United States and Russia, a Western diplomatic source told a Saudi-owned newspaper Wednesday.

    Moscow and Washington agreed that the Jewish state could conduct these attacks on Iranian targets in order to “ensure Israel’s security,” the source told the London-based Arabic-language Asharq Al-Awsat.

    Now, taking it at face value, I would say that Russia could only possibly green light activities in Syria, as that is the only place where it has a presence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not give agreement to the killing of Iranians. At the time I spoke about it was widely felt Russia could stop Israel from continuing to attack Iranians in Syria.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The issue about Iraq is still unclear and there is a lot of propaganda by the Israeli side that needs to be taken with a grain of salt on what is behind these explosions. But in Syria, the situation is very clear unfortunately. The Russians are basically working against the Iranian forces there and with the Israelis. Not only agreeing not to interfere with the Israeli operations in Syria against these forces, but even going so far as to put a lot of pressure to "dis-invite" the Iranian backed forces now that the civil war has basically ended in favor of Assad. Fortunately, however, Assad is the one that doesn't want to see all his eggs in a not so reliable Russian basket and has stuck his ground, saying he wants the Iranian backed forces to remain.
     
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  13. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, but it was the Russians that stated in Jerusalem that Iran was its ally and also has planned joint naval exercises with Iran in the area of the Straights of Hormuz.

    Russia, I believe, doesn't want to see an expansionist Iran, though it will not directly intervene. I haven't seen Russia trying to stop Iran's support for Hezbollah but don't think it really wants to see Iranian militias all over the area.
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Quickly:
    1- For centuries, one of the great ambitions of Russian foreign policy was to gain access to the warm water ports of the Persian Gulf. They could have an alliance with Iran and have such access. While Iran's independent streak won't be happy with a Russian base inside Iranian mainland territory, we probably could find a way to work with Russia to have joint naval base in one of the islands in the Persian Gulf. But the Russians aren't the same Russians of the past. What would have been a dream come true for centuries, now makes them uncomfortable. Even the planned joint naval exercises you alluded to were presented differently by the Russian side than the Iranian side. The Russian side wanted to make it clear the exercises won't be in the Persian Gulf itself!
    2- Russia knows, or should know, full well that the main neocon faction is ultimately going to come after the Russians and the Chinese. Not to wage war against them, but the usual hoopla and propaganda to unleash a new cold war and to try to beat the Russians down economically and otherwise. So, of course, they have an interest to work with Iran to stand up to American hegemonic efforts, especially since the neocon's attention on the Russians is due after they feel they have taken care of Iran. Even so, and despite the sanctions against them and everything else that shows the painting on the wall, the Russians are still hoping to find an accommodation with these neocons! That is one reason they meet so regularly with Netanyahu! And in the accommodation they seek, they always dangle the "Iran card": basically saying that if you deal with us nicely on "near Russia", we can help with Iran in Syria and elsewhere.
    3- Russia has a huge credibility problem that requires it show greater loyalty to those it calls its "allies". I don't think the term necessarily helps anyone feel secure! If Iran is indeed an ally, I would have hoped the Russians would act accordingly. Not to play footsie with Israel as it boasts of killing "Iranians" in Syria. Not to basically sit and do next to nothing as an international agreement they also signed is openly breached by the Americans. Not to enter into arms agreements with Iran, only to renege on their end of the deal when they come under pressure (even when there was no UN arms embargo on Iran). Not to do things that allow credible speculation that the Russians have traded S-300 codes with the Israelis in return for some Israeli drone technology or whatever. Frankly, and quite easily, not to meet so much with the folks who are obviously behind much of the neocon nonsense in the first place!
     
  15. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can't blame them. The U.S. has refused to any reconciliation for CIA "Operation TP Ajax" coup in Iran in 1953 and has refused to cooperate with Iran in many of Iran's suggested joint efforts at curtailing terrorism, Al Qaida for example.
     
  16. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Actually, while you are right that the Americans have reneged on their side of the bargain on a couple of occasions when Iran did agree to meet and talk to them (specifically, working with the US behind the scenes by using the Northern Alliance backed by Iran to do the heavy lifting to take out the Taliban in Afghanistan, and now obviously the nuclear agreement), the truth is that Iran is the party that historically has refused to meet and talk to the US. Many in Iran used to blame Iran's leadership for this dogmatic refusal to meet and negotiate with the Americans, but after this obvious breach of their agreement with Iran, I don't think anyone in Iran who isn't compromised is rushing to push Iran to meet with the Americans anytime soon!
     
  17. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Iran is the 3rd leg in the stool of the greater Eurasia project (the other 2 being China and Russia). Within this framework are the EAEU, the SCO and the BRI. Good things await Iran but it shouldn't overplay its hand.

    Russia is not in Syria for the Iranians. Iran is a mature nation that can bear the consequences of its actions. If one of those consequences is Israel bombing Iranian targets inside Iraq and Syria, then that is its problem.

    Actually I think the Iranian leaders understand this better than you do.
     
  18. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    While I hope that there is something the Iranian leadership understands on this issue that I don't, and that thing points to something useful (and mutually beneficial) to come from the Russians, for now I see the issues the way I have mentioned them. Which I do regret greatly, since I would love to see Iran and Russia forge a genuine alliance of sorts. But, alas, the kind of things I mentioned above, or the kind of sample of reports I post for you below, don't suggest this to be the case.

    For instance, a couple of months ago in Syria:
    https://nedaa-sy.com/en/news/13499
    Russia arrests 11 Iranians for spying on military bases
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...-between-russia-troops-and-pro-iran-militias/
    11 dead in Syria clashes between Russia troops and pro-Iran militias
    A few months before that:
    https://syria.chathamhouse.org/research/russian-iranian-conflict-erupts-in-deir-ez-zor
    Russian-Iranian Conflict Erupts in Deir ez-Zor
     
  19. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    As I said, Iran doesn't need to overplay its hand. Without Russia, Syria would have been lost. While Iran surely contributed greatly, is an Iranian presence there necessary at this point? The fight is for Idlib now and I haven't seen Iran mentioned in that.
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Without Iran, the fight would have been over even before the Russians joined in! You can take all the credit you wish, but the real fight in Syria for Iran is elsewhere. And unfortunately, the Russians are acting more as Israeli proxies than allies of either Iran or Syria!
    I will post more extensively from this report in June to show what I mean:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...th-iran-backed-forces-officials-idUSKCN1J125S
    Exclusive: In Syria, a Russian move causes friction with Iran-backed forces - officials
     
  21. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    You're wasting your time. Sure, Iran was in Syria before Russia and guess what? They were losing!! Russia turned it around, full stop.
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    What I recall was everyone predicting Assad would be gone in a few weeks or months when Iran got involved. At the time, the Russians were more visible in conferences meant to chart the future of a "post Assad" Syria than anywhere near the battlefields in Syria!

    That said, the Russian contribution to the fight is not the issue and not in question. The issue here was whether Russia can be counted as a reliable ally for Iran in the current climate and in the issues Iran faces? Not whether the Russian intervention in Syria was effective or not, as obviously it was an important part of bringing that civil war to a successful end.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally, I like to post this report about something entirely different. The anti-aircraft system that Iran has developed, namely Bavar 373, was developed by Iran when the Russians reneged on their contract to sell Iran the S-300. While several years later, when Iran had already had largely finished work on developing the Bavar 373 and wasn't really all that interested in the S-300 anymore, the Russians finally delivered the system to Iran to settle an arbitration claim Iran had initiated (by that time, Iran was more interested in damages but the Russians said 'specific performance' was the first remedy under the applicable law), the good thing about the Bavar 373 (besides its capabilities, which I like to see tested in battlefields like Syria and especially Iraq) is that there are no questions about its codes being compromised and given away to the Israelis.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...an-unveil-air-defense-missile-system-65097363
    State TV: Iran to unveil air defense missile system
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  24. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    Don't expect Russia to be an unconditional ally in all Iran's endeavours, such as with its militias in Iraq.

    However, when it counts ......

    WORLD
    RUSSIA WARNS U.S. AND ISRAEL THAT IRAN IS ITS 'ALLY' AND WAS RIGHT ABOUT DRONE SHOOT DOWN
    By Tom O'Connor On 6/25/19 at 1:47 PM EDT
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (C-R), White House national security adviser John Bolton (C-L), Russian Secretary of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev (R) and Israeli National Security Adviser Meir Ben-Shabbat (L) take part in a trilateral summit in Jerusalem on June 25. Russia defended Iran, while the U.S. and Israel warned they were prepared to take further action against the Islamic Republic.PHOTO: MENAHEM KAHANA/AFP/GETTY IMAGES
    WORLDINTERNATIONAL AFFAIRSMIDDLE EAST

    A senior Russian official warned his U.S. and lsraeli counterparts that his country would continue to support Iran, which he backed in its recent claims regarding the shooting down of a U.S. spy drone.

    Russian National Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev was the sole voice defending Iran in historic trilateral talks Tuesday alongside White House national security adviser John Bolton and Israeli National Security Council Adviser Meir Ben-Shabbat in Jerusalem. As the U.S. and Israel hardened their stances against their mutual adversary amid heightened tensions in the Middle East, Russia has sought de-escalation and dismissed attempts to liken Iran to jihadis such as the Islamic State militant group (ISIS).

    "In the context of the statements made by our partners with regard to a major regional power, namely Iran, I would like to say the following: Iran has always been and remains our ally and partner, with which we are consistently developing relations both on bilateral basis and within multilateral formats," Patrushev said following the meeting that lasted more than two and a half hours, according to the state-run Tass Russian News Agency.


     
  25. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    More likely it was an Iraqi who's father was killed in the battle with Iran that did not want to see Iranian soldiers with arms on Iraqi soil.
    Or maybe it was another Iraqi who saw those Iranian missiles that have already murdered tens of thousands in Syria and Yemen, but not a single Israeli.
    That smart Iraqi realized those missiles are probably going to rain on his family in Basra or his friends in Mosul and decided to blow them before it happens.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019

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