Isreal strikes Iranian targets in Syria.

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by zoom_copter66, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here is the difference Gilos. You are uber partisan and uber biased. You are not a stupid fellow - Your posts are coherent and rational for the most part yet - you need to get control of your extreme bias.

    I have no such bias. I am not a follower of the God of Abraham (The Christian, Muslim and Jewish God - or so they think but that is another story).

    I am a huge fan of Jewish culture. I view it as superior to Christian and Muslim culture. The reason for this is because Jews - in general - are raised to question everything - even God. Muslims and Christians on the other hand are raised to not question "just believe - just have faith". They are indoctrinated from birth that if they "Question" or "disbelieve" some tenets and/or dogma related to some holy book - the worst thing the mind can imagine will happen to them. They will be tortured mercilessly in the afterlife - not just for a day or two - but for Eternity - for ever and ever and ever.

    I have no tolerance for those (Islamist's and the religious right) who want to force religious beliefs on others through physical violence (Law) - Sharia - and am a huge fan of essential liberty as per the founding principles - and actually know what they mean.

    As such - I am totally on board with your perspective with respect to terror cells in Europe and the Gov't ignoring this - Britain has Sharia Courts - to me this is an anathema.

    The blood feud between Israel and the Palestinians is something different. Yes it has a religious context but it also has a "blood feud" context which you seem to ignore.

    It is one thing for some religious extremists to arbitrarily do attacks and commit heinous atrocities - like those done by ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria on Christians others - simply on the basis that those people are "the other" - do not share the same Saudi inspired extremist Salafi ideology. It is quite another to defend yourself, and or retaliate, in relation to a blood feud - in relation to one group stealing land from another or occupying another's land - or land claimed by another via historical context. This is war and in this war - both sides have done and continue to do - nasty things.

    A large number of Jews living in Israel realize this. They are not in favor of the hard core Zionist perspective.

    I do not condone arming - or being involved in arming - and supporting the likes of Al Qaeda and ISIS - even against my enemy.

    There is a concept called "Proportionality" - as in - someone throwing a rock at you does not justify gunning down that person's whole family. The term Karma is inextricably linked to proportionality. The above is not Karma - it is extremism on steroids.

    Karma is walking up to a hornets nest and hitting it with a baseball bat. This is akin to what Israel is doing in going along with the US - and its "Good Friend" Saudi Arabla - (and others) in arming the Salafi Jihadist extremists who are trying to turn Syria into a Jihadist wonderland and make Sharia the law of the land.

    Do you seriously think that secular Syria - the only major secular Muslim nation in the ME - is worse for Israel than it being turned into a Jihadist wonderland ? Think about that - long term. Having these people be educated from birth to hate Jews, Christians - and anyone else that is not like them - even other Muslims.

    Do you seriously think Saudi Arabia is Israel's friend ? A nation who has hatred for Jews as part of the curriculum - a nation that is the cradle of Salafi extremist ideology.

    I don't get it - and a whole lot of Jews living in Israel and the US do not get it either.
     
  2. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    But the Nazis were only wrong as it pertains to the group that beat them. The Jews did not beat the Nazis, so according to your logic, the Nazis were right as it pertains to the Jews.
     
  3. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    The Nazis had the might to be right and probably would have eradicated all Jews from the face of the earth -- had it not been for the mightier who were right and made the Nazis wrong.
     
  4. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    But that only made the Nazis wrong in regards to the people who beat them. They weren’t beaten by the Jews, so according to your logic, the Jews were wrong and the Nazis were right.
     
  5. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    ISIS came to being because it is in their blood and the situation was right.
     
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am going to risk the temptation to guess what you are meaning by this and ask you to explain!
     
  7. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    I surf, its a great sport and lots of fun, I suggest you try it, when you surf you learn there is no point fighting the wave you can only go with it and slightly play with it, lots of waves out there that want to take you all over the place, Israel cannot form any kind of real alliance with ANY Muslim country, not KSA, Egypt or Turkey - but we can ride occasional momentum that change as we go, Turkey is the biggest trade partner of Israel in the area AND its greatest critic - what does that tell you ? its all a game, to force ourselves to change to the content of the Turks or any other Muslim country will sink us, its not natural.
    I do not hate Arabs and I have no aversion from them, I wish no ill to any country or regime in the world unless they want me to sink and even then I don't "hate" them, the Syrian ppl had to chose between ISIS and Assad, much like the Russians had to chose between Hitler and Stalin in WW2, and now they pinched between Israel and Iran, I don't hate them I pity them but I don't blame my country for the mess that got them here, it was a dictator decision and a very violent society that did that + Western powers messing with it.....but hey its only natural ppl will want to protect their investments it's how this world works not just in the ME...
    What served us all these years was standing up over our national principles and while I didn't always think like that I do think now that the iron hand is best suited for our period of time in our area and to our "partners", the Russians will only respect us if we prove we will go to war over some issues and that's the ONLY path to peace, I think we prove we will when we bomb.
     
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  8. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    It sounds racist but I really meant it cultural, a violent society under the Baath rule for so many decades laid on a base of religious and patriarchal family to form clans and tribes "united" by one dictator - is a recipe for disaster, now it held for many years and not a few massacres but I for one am not surprised it blew apart eventually, oppressed violent religious nuts are the result.
    What happened to the Syrians would have happened to any nation under same conditions, its nothing racist.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Hitler vs Stalin parallel is flawed. That would put ISIS and Assad on equal footing which is a false narrative on many accounts. Assad is no Angel but he is not ISIS/Al Qaeda either. This is why the people in Syria who want to maintain their freedoms (including a whole lot of Sunni Muslims in Syria - 50% of Assads Regular army is Sunni) fight for Assad against the Jihadists.

    Israel was between a rock and a hard place. Syria and Iran are not Israel's friends however having a Secular regime in Syria is a whole lot better than having it be run by the extremist Islamist (Al Qaeda/ISIS). On the other side of the coin, the US - Israel's greatest benefactor - is on the side of (Al Qaeda/ISIS).

    Clearly this is no contest. Israel will side with the US. Unfortunately we also have Russia in the mix. Russia is not an enemy of Israel and Israel does not wish to make an enemy of Russia. Israel has then been walking a fine line by attacking Syria, while trying to do so in such a way that does not upset Russia. Both the US and Israel have been very careful not to target areas occupied by the Russian Army. When either launches an attack on Syria they communicate with Russia to avoid any unpleasantness that would result from attacking a Russian position.

    The idea that Israel has some desire to prove itself to Russia by going to war with Russia is both absurd and simply not true.
     

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