It doesn't matter where the Drone was. This is what we should be creeping out about

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, thank you, I meant Iraq.

    It seems you want to believe that Bush & Co were telling the truth, and that is certainly your choice.

    They were lying to all of us. Some have realized that, others cannot.

    Colin Powell presented bullshit to the UN, and you have every right in the world to buy his bullshit.
     
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  2. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    This at the same time that Blix, the chief inspector, avowed to the UN that, given enough time, he would assuredly find WMDs.
     
  3. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And after he reported, many times, that the Iraqi were delaying inspection and not cooperating fully.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    inspectors were in Iraq, Bush did not have to kick them out and go to war anyways when they reported no WMD found
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  5. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    This is about Iran, right? Yeah, I thought so.

    CNBC is reporting, "European officials said they created a trading vehicle to help Iran get some relief from U.S. sanctions, but Tehran may see the proposal as insufficient to stop it from moving forward with a threat to violate its nuclear deal.

    "The remaining parties to the nuclear deal, abandoned by the U.S. last year, have been scrambling to find a way to keep Iran from leaving the agreement. They held an urgent meeting in Vienna in an effort to hold Iran from violating the deal. The trade mechanism was announced after the meeting.

    "But Iran said it would continue with its plan to enrich uranium even though it is just days away from a volume that would violate the nuclear accord."

    Meanwhile, Trump has warned our European allies that they have a choice of doing business with the U.S. or Iran.

    Good job, Mr. President, as you drive us farther and farther away for our allies.

    I see you are having a great time with the communist dictator of Russia. Pompeo was laughing his head off at your joke about Russian interference in our election, and your attack on American news media was great comedy. We all enjoyed it.
     
  6. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    This is surreal.

    Congress has the power to declare war.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the power to declare war, in the following wording:

    [The Congress shall have Power...] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water.

    Trump Republicans in Congress have refused to rein in the reckless President. They have chided him, but do nothing. Trump recently joined with the communist dictator of Russia as both had a good laugh over Russia's interference in our election. To Trump, that is a joke.

    Recently, Trump nearly caused a catastrophic war with Iran.

    To all of this, Republicans in Congress do nothing. Now they have even given up their war powers to Trump. The Senate on Friday rejected an attempt to require Trump to seek congressional approval for military action in Iran.

    Republicans in Congress just gave our erratic President, who is a friend of Vladimir Putin, the unlimited power to go to war against Iran and her many proxies throughout the Middle East. If Iraq, a far weaker military power, is any measure, war with Iran would be multi-year disaster, and Trump is completely in charge. Senators abdicated their power over the executive branch.
     
  7. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    You should understand that under Article II the president can call for military action without so much of a whisper from congress.
     
  8. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem is with the word lie.

    That would presume that they knew that there werent WMDs, but told us there were. I dont think this is the case, as I believe they acted on the intelligence they had available.

    In either case, I dont think it matters. The reason that the intelligence was spotty is because Saddam intentionally over and over ignored and toyed with UN inspectors tasked with insuring he didnt.

    After years and years of playing games and challenging UN sanctions, which required inspections, and considering it is a known fact he gassed the Kurds in the past, this was justification enough in my eyes to remove him from power.
     
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  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It matters greatly, whether or not this country was taken to war under fraud.

    Of course YOU don't think it matters, because if it was taken to war under fraud, your world view is crushed and rendered not quite in touch with reality. Thus cognitive dissonance comes into play, and you cannot deal with the fact that Bush & Co lied and cheated and demonstrated exactly the dangers described by Eisenhower in his 1961 Farewell Address.

    George Bush even joked about finding those darn WMD's with a wink and a nod.

    You don't think it matters because you were tricked, and 18 years later have still not figured it out.

    No country, including the US, has lawful power to overthrow the government of another country, but likely you prefer to ignore that fact.
     
  10. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its semantics. It doesn't really matter whether he had WMDs or not, or if we thought he did.

    We stopped our defense of Kuwait without taking Bagdad because the UN wanted to utilize sanctions. The very first time Saddam disallowed inspections, we had out justification to resume forceful removal.

    The whole WMDs thing is just a talking point to attempt to prove that our actions were not justified.

    I disagree with that.

    Oh, I see how you debate and defend your opinions. You do so by attacking those that disagree. How utterly sophisticated of you.

    Says who?

    Adolph Hitler?

    When you attack our allies, expect to get a response.
     
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  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Says who? Numerous of the international treaties we have signed.

    I know, we have no obligation to honor our words or signatures, but civilized people think we do.
     
  12. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please do post the treaty in which we say we wont defend or allies.
     
  13. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    FYI, defending allies is not the same as overthrowing legitimately elected governments.
     
  14. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    You mean... gasp.... CHINA? Or is it back to Russia again. It's so hard to know.
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Is it? You need to think harder if you can't figure out which threats there are in the world that, right now, are grater than Iran.
     
  16. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Over throwing governments is par for the course following attacks on allies and innocents.

    We didn't just push Hitler back to the German border and come home. Was that wrong too?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you cannot distinguish between Hitler and Maduro and others, we have nothing to discuss.
     

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