It just became easier for employers to dump retirees' pensions

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Quantum Nerd, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The company I was working for back in 1990's did it and was the best thing thing happened with my retirement.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I agree entirely we should eliminate all government pensions and 401k matches should be tied to budget surpluses and balances.
     
  3. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Its optional
     
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh how uniformed. Not only do I get the company match I get it tax free and it is MY MONEY I control it and it goes with me and can't be cut.
     
  5. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how many people cheer on the corporate lobbying for better conditions, while digging the grave of their own middle class one small shovel after the other.

    How many times does it have to be said: The employers DO NOT OFFER LUMP SUMS OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF THEIR HEART, OR TO GIVE RETIREES OPTIONS.

    They do it because it saves them money and reduces risk. Guess who will burden the additional risk and lose money? THE RETIREES.

    How many retirees in their 70s will be able to resist the carrot of a $200,000 lump sum dangled in front of their nose, not realizing that they lose much more than that in pension payments if they take the bait? My guess is not many. Of course, a small fraction may come out ahead if they take the lump sum. The vast majority will lose money, take more risk, and pay their financial advisers handsomely in the process. Mission of the fat cats accomplished.
     
  6. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    P.S.: For those who want to gamble late in life in the stock market: 401ks and Roth IRAs already allow you to do that. To encourage people to do this with lump sums, converting a GUARANTEED monthly payment to a stock market investment is borderline criminal.
     
  7. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    But shouldn't that be my choice?

    I have the right to make poor financial decisions. Of course the Lump Sum benefits the corporations in the long run, but by paying the Lump Sum to a few that might find it as a decent alternative, it might also keep the company solvent and save numerous jobs. The main reason Sears went out of business was because of the high pension payouts....and now some of their workers may never see their pension....or could face a temporary stopage in the checks for a period of time, at the least.

    I really get tired of people telling me what I can and can not do with my money.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  8. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    And who hired those illegal employees why none other than Dirty Donald dld and his various properties, until he was exposed by the NYT.
     
  9. navigator2

    navigator2 Banned

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    The ignorance exhibited in this thread knows no bounds. Are you familiar with the term vesting? :facepalm: Also, ever heard of personal responsibility? In a pension, if you leave employment or turn 59 !/2, you have the option of taking your contributions without a penalty. Only a bona-fide moron does this without rolling it over tax free into another retirement vehicle and forfeiting all employer contributions. In a 401k, when vested, the employee has some discretion in how his/her retirement funds are invested. They get to take not only their contributions but the employer match plus earnings when they meet the same standards. Would employers who offer real pension plans like to offer early buyouts? Of course. People are living longer and longer and it averts risk and gets the liability off their balance sheets. I truly believe the left thinks everyone is a village idiot because they treat people as such and pander to them under their big tent. :roflol:
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It is becoming obvious that the old buzzard Pelosi and her stupid Dems have no interest in protecting and strengthening the safety net.
     
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Did you read your own article? One major problem is government:
    You also misrepresented the issue by leaving this part out:
    You also left out that it is ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY
    You also left out Obama's IRS' role:
    HOLY SMOKES, you REALLY misrepresented this. Obama never got around to issuing the guidance you claim Trump "reversed":
    Wait it gets better: You scapegoated Corporations when Obama's director of the PBGC blames CONGRESS
    What are Pelosi and the Democrat House doing about this?

    YOUR SOURCE!

    Do you think maybe you should apologize and issue a retraction?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  12. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of my coworkers take the buy out. If you don't live to a ripe old age you could get less out and then a surviving spouse will only get a fraction if you take regular pension payments. Some who retired said once rolled over to an IRA they only need to get 5-6% on their investments to take out about just as much and not touch the principal.
     
  13. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    My father retired from Beth steel after working there for 40 years. When they went bankrupt, the government took the pension over but he didn't get his full pension payments.
     
  14. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Read the article and learn something.

    This is about employers handing retirees a take-it-or-leave it offer well after they have retired. This is not about buy outs. This is about short changing people.

    When the Treasury Department is run by Goldman Sachs, this is what you get.
     
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  15. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Well, under this rule, as a retiree, he would have been offered a one time check, for less, take-it-or leave-it.

    And no, the Pension Benefit Guarantee Program does not (and is not finacially capable) of paying the full pensions.

    Your dad was lucky. The Pension Benefit Guarantee program did not exist until the late 1960's.

    Had he worked for another industrial employer before then, he would have gotten nothing at all.

    Which is what happened when Studebaker went down in 1966. Those retirees and workers got not one penny of their pensions. Which is why the guarantee fund was established.
     
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  16. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Before Reagan cut the amount companies had to fund it, didn't companies have to have their pension funds fully funded in order to pay off retirees in case of bankruptcy? Or was that part of the Pension Benefit Guarantee program?
     
  17. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    That's rich. One of the leaders on this forum in spreading cherry picked and misleading statistics to make Trump look good is asking others to apologize!

    Note, that nowhere did I absolve Dems of blame. Unlike you, I can appreciate that both parties are beholden to big money interests.

    When you look at the median net worth, though, people at the 50% level about to retire have roughly $200,000, and that includes home equity. So, half the country is, in essence, actually unable to save (actually, extend that to 80% of the country).

    What do you think will happen when they all of a sudden get their hands on a $300,000 lump sum? Yes, a few may put it into a low cost index fund, stick with a 4% withdrawal rate and come out ahead. Or a few put it into an annuity, which will pay out less than the original pension.

    The vast majority will either blow it, lose much of it to financial "advisers", high expense ratios, front loads etc., or even are convinced to give it to the kids as an early inheritance, so they will be worse off after a few years than just taking the monthly pay check from the pension.

    Those same people will then be blamed by the GOP for not being responsible and should not be supported by the tax payer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  18. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Nice. Another one whose family benefited from the government social safety net, who then turns around and attacks that same safety net that helped them.

    Note that pension insurance probably wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Democrats.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    You view older workers as infants unable to make intelligent choices, when they likely are smarter than these folks that think they have the right to make choices for other people. How about this, maybe they don't think you are all that bright either.

    Further, while you act like this is a great priority, the Obama Administration never even drafted the rule revision you claim is imperative, all Trump has done is refused to complete Obama's uncompleted task.

    Then after leaving all that critical information out you go on a mindless rant about Stock Buybacks sprinkled with your endless boring anti-Trump perseverations.

    {Yawn!}
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    So you're telling us that now an annuitized defined benefit plan can be rolled into a defined contribution plan?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    It's also blatant capitalist theft of workers' money.
     
  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    OH CUT THE CRAP! Pensions burden businesses with management costs and funding costs. 401k plans only burden businesses with a small, usually 6% match on the first $xx per year. It's much cheaper for the business and it's more risky and a less secure value for the employee. And you think the employee wanted it??? And why do employees change jobs so much? Nothing to do with employers, right? Employers are the victims in our capitalist economy that is crushing employees, right? LOL!!!
     
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  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    ALL changes are for the capitalist.
     
  24. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    a lump sum to a firm sponsored mutual fund may be beneficial.
     
  25. ModCon

    ModCon Well-Known Member

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    It's optional though right?
     

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