It just makes sense to manufacture in China

Count me in.

 

Actually that's not entirely true. Reagan diverted a lot of federal defense manufacturing contracts to his home state, California, with the result of bringing a lot of extra employment to the area, and there was a whole generation of middle class people in many areas of that state who had good-paying jobs working in the defense manufacturing industries and lived in the newly constructed sprawling suburbs. This had such an effect on the state, I don't think those suburbs would have grown as much as they had if it had not been for Reagan and manufacturing industries. Maybe as much as 1 out of every 5 men in these suburbs had a job in engineering. Many of them later became unemployed when the defense industries began leaving the region and the Recession came.

 

The price tag may be cheap from Lying Outlaw China, but their goods are the most expensive in the world, by far. Their lies shut down the global economy. Their virus has killed 448,097 already, and by the time the 3,521,559 active cases are concluded another 350,000 will be dead. We are likely looking a million casualty event.

Lying Outlaw China Lies Casually and Without Hesitation

DON’T DO BUSINESS WITH PEOPLE YOU CAN’T TRUST: Over 1,300 Chinese Medical Suppliers to U.S.—Including Mask Providers—Use Bogus Registration Data.

More than 1,300 Chinese medical-device companies that registered to sell protective gear and other equipment in the U.S. during the coronavirus pandemic listed as their American representative a purported Delaware entity that uses a false address and nonworking phone number, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.

All foreign manufacturers of medical devices are required to have a representative with a real address in the U.S. and somebody available during business hours.

 

The only way we'll bring jobs back from China without causing a whole host of other international problems is if we all agree to lower our standard of living so that we will accept the lower wages and loss of benefits necessary to keep the profit drug flowing to the shareholders, owners, and executives if they were to shift production to the U.S. Of course, we could all just agree to pay more for the things we need and want, but that option is out-of-reach for many who are not upper class or beyond.

Profit is king and profit requires China.

It is also foolish to punish China for capitalizing on that because we in this country would do the same in a heartbeat. Profit is no less a king there than it is here.

Days past where the U.S. was able to strong arm 2nd and 3rd world countries for resources and lopsided trade deals in our favor are over, for the most part. The lingering effects of that era are still with us though. They make up the rosy nostalgia for a time that folks think we can go back to by electing nincompoops like Trump. But that era is dead and gone, and it won't be returning, because the world that existed then and made it possible no longer exists either.

 

Very little is about profits...it's mostly about competing and survival.

You assume the only option is to 'pay more for things' and this can only happen if American consumers are not allowed to purchase imports.

An average company needs a facility, infrastructure, labor, materials, transportation, environmental approval, acceptable tax laws, along with consumers, and yes profits, etc. etc. All of these needs are available today around the world! Unless you're going to wall off the US from the rest of the world, who cares where corporations procure these needs? PROFIT doesn't require China...US consumers require China and others to allow US businesses to provide affordable products to both US consumers and global consumers. Don't forget; 95% of the world's consumers reside outside of the USA...

 

A totally anti American position.

 

It makes sense if company profits and cheap products are your only concern. If you are actually concerned about the welfare of the people in your country, employment, living standards, velocity of your money and inequality then it makes sense to consider where you manufacture very carefully

 

Not really.

GM does the engineering in house and buys labor intensive parts in Mexico. Sophisticated parts in Canada. Then Final assembly in USA

Americans gets Jobs

GM instead of being non competitive in the Market and going out of business stays in business. Everyone benefits mainly Americans

 

His real name is Wang Dang Ping Pong.

Lol

 

The gun is the need to feed and care for your family. That means low wage jobs get filled. Plus no job no food assistance. Thanks to welfare reform.

Our economic model should be based on employing Americans who have to work to survive. And not on max profits for a few. Our model should provide living wage jobs for Americans and to hell with max profits for the rich.

To not do this is insanity. So sir you are quite mad IMO. And don't give a **** about this country or her people. No matter how you spin it. We didn't become an empire with a low wage service sector economy but by our people making our huge consumption.

The Founders cared about this nation and her people and had enough wisdom to use tariffs to protect our people from foreign slave labor. For our nation and our security.

Globalism is a scheme to bottom out our wages so they eventually are as low as possible for max profits for a few.

So to hell with with globalists and the imported horse they rode in on.

The wisdom of our founders did not change because it is easier to offshore our value added economy. Our elites just got too greedy and owe no allegiance to any nation.

 

Resorting to insults is typical drivel and certainly meaningless to me when it's based on anything but reality.

You are clueless about the management of a business.

Nothing you mention here is a valid business discussion.

It's diatribe and will always be meaningless since there are no solutions to diatribe.

You need to educate yourself about manufacturing, business, competition, global markets, etc.

 

Prices will go up if we produce from the US. However, we will also have more jobs. Additionally, there will be more demand for American labor so wages will be higher. I get that the free market looks for the most efficient means of production, but when it bypasses paying for American workers to sell to American workers, that just isn't sustainable.

Another problem is that if everything is made outside the US, then the US itself really isn't producing anything, and when the chips are down, then we will be left with nothing. In a global crisis, we will literally have nothing when all the factories are in China and all the software developers are in India.

We have also been outsourcing for quite a while and I have yet to see prices go down. In fact, the cost of living continues to rise. But income inequality continues to rise so the benefits of outsourcing has disproportionately benefitted the rich who can avoid paying American workers.

One issue with outsourcing is that it is used to avoid US safety, labor, and wage regulations. We as a country have chosen to have these regulations to benefit workers even if they increase prices a bit. Outsourcing just allows company to avoid these regulations and to not even use Americans workers on top of that. At least when our children were working in factories, they will being paid. Now they are bypassing Americans workers completely and exploting Thai children instead.

Prices will go up if we outsourced less, but there would also be a lot more automation. If employers couldn't use foreign labor to make cell phones, they will make factory robots that do the same thing. But at least these things will be done in the US, and can be directly taxed by the US government. They will also benefit technological progress and make our country stronger rather than relying on other countries.

Its ok to buy some products abroad because other countries have some great stuff too. But we need to do this in a balanced way. That means we import as much as we export. We don't take the radical road of isolationism and also don't take the radial road of continued outsourcing.

 

I owned my own manufacturing business . A very successful business..

I don't believe in offshoring.. It disembowels this country and people. That is why we would not do it until Bush Sr.

A 180 move from sane economics given to us by our wise founders.

Sorry for any insult. This issue is so important for average Americans given it impoverishes. And against their health and general welfare..

 

There are numerous US car manufacturers. NONE of them make 100% of their vehicles in the USA. If Company A chooses to buy motors from a foreign vender, paying $3000 each when the cost in the US is $5000 each, what do you think Company B, C, D... should do? They have little choice but to also buy motors from a foreign source that allows them to also save $2000 per motor and remain competitive. This same process applies to all parts and subassemblies procured outside of the USA. When Company A goes further and builds an entire facility in a foreign nation, in order to save money and be more competitive, what choices do Company B, C, D... have?? ALL of these companies are in fierce competition with each other and when one can save money outsourcing then all others must follow. If Company A, B, C, D... could build in the US and remain competitive...they would! But they can't!

There are other reasons to outsource and they are just as viable. Like Apple can't build iPhones in the US because the US cannot provide the facilities, infrastructure, and labor needed to produce their volume. Other companies have similar issues.

Like I said...this is extremely complex and rarely is any of this about increasing profits...it's about competing and remaining in business...

 

Totally agree with you.

Choosing not to outsource is (in a way) not so much an choice that can be made by a single independent company.

To choose not to outsource, a nation has to come together and pass laws.

It could even be that none of the companies really want to outsource, but feel they have to. Kind of analogous to an arms race, where the competition is so fierce each side feels like they have to do whatever it takes to gain some small edge. This of course quickly escalates.

By the way, this was the same exact reason it was so hard for plantations to dispense with slavery. As long as there were other plantations operating based on slavery, they could not just get rid of their slaves and still stay in business. So some plantation owners reluctantly kept running the slave operation, even though they may have personally wished for slavery to end.

And the slave analogy is very apt here because we all know that China uses slave prison labor. Numerous investigative news articles about this.

 

It is incumbent upon a company to either create in house or outside source everything required to satisfy consumer demand and earn some profits. 'Outsourcing' is somewhat a politically charged word. When operating in a global marketplace, it's one big bowl of action. There is no 'out' since the global marketplace is available.

The only way to change this is stupid stuff like applying tariffs or becoming an isolated or protectionist nation. What's the point? How much of our GDP is a direct result of being able to source and sell globally?

I have zero issue with a global marketplace. If a nation has a trade imbalance then that nation should plan how to increase exports. There are very simple answers to 'why can't we build everything in the US'?

 

The problem is trade deficits. (Obviously nothing wrong with small deficits, that's perfectly normal, but talking about large mounting chronic deficits, over many years)

And trade deficits do not just so simply automatically correct by themselves, because there is the issue of capital accumulation. That is, what the other side is going to buy with all that money they hoard is assets, not consumer goods. Buying up businesses, real estate, and lending money that has to be paid back with interest.

Even if they did automatically correct eventually, it could take a decade, and that type of thing can lead to economic instability.

 

Why does a nation have higher imports than exports? You would need to analyze every line item to understand 'why' imports are greater than exports. A nation cannot be expected to produce everything they need. You can even break this down state by state; how many US states produce their own oil and gasoline? How many have their own lumber source? I say screw the politics of trade deficits and focus on developing business and industry at home...in whatever form this might be...

 

Would it be ok if we just had your stuff made in China? Most of us would prefer not to give the business to those who steal our technology and sell it back to us.

 

No, certainly not.

But I believe that type of argument is mainly a red herring. Because if you look at the types of things the country is importing, most of it doesn't fit that type of idea.


Let me also point out the obvious that a country can still be involved in trade and make an attempt to try to avoid trade deficits.

 

That would probably involve slashing environmental regulations and labor protections, and the enforcement of those laws, down to a level similar to that which exists in China.
Something that's just not going to politically happen in the US.

 

Yes and no. Sure it is nice to export more goods and services than you import - but you are making more out of this than it is.

If I make an Iphone in China - and the cost to manufacture is $300 - and this phone is retailed for 1000 dollars - but in return we get to sell Iphone's in China - and other goods. How does this work out ?

The value add to China from that $300 dollars is around 3% .. so 9 Dollars - on a item with a retail of $1000 - the number that is used for the "Trade deficit" calculation. So call it 1% of the trade deficit number. Consumer electronics makes up 150 Billion of the Trade deficit.

The screen is made by Samsung - the CPU from Korea - and so on. China is getting bugger all out of the deal. The most of course is for Apple. 700 in profit per unit.

So call the value add for China 1.5 Billion on 150 Billion in sales. whoop tee do. Big time stimulus to China's economy - some low paying jobs.

Now take 150 Billion in US sales of soybeans and other agricultural products and Pork. the value add is over 90% ... thats 135 Billion direct stimulus to our economy...

Vs China's 1.5 Billion Who is getting the better end of that deal ?

 

Remember "China's not the problem" -Quid Pro Joe

 

Why did our founders protect our own production from the other countries?

We could have not made anything and bought what we needed from england. They could have used labor from the poor in their empire .

Well we know why. And that path won us ww2 and industrialized america which gave us a decent standard of living. It gave us security.

If the only purpose of capitalism is to benefit the few you get today's service sector economy and our huge homeless problem. You get servants instead of engineers. You get a gig economy.

It is utter insanity. Ain't rocket science.

To listen to you it should have been impossible to have ever made here what we consumed! Yet we did it for most of our history.

And we did it because rich elites were not allowed to use this nation as a colony.

 

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