Japan activates first marines since WW2 to bolster defenses against China

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by US Conservative, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SASEBO/TOKYO, Japan (Reuters) - Japan on Saturday activated its first marine unit since World War Two trained to counter invaders occupying Japanese islands along the edge of the East China Sea that Tokyo fears are vulnerable to attack by China.

    In a ceremony held at a military base near Sasebo on the southwest island of Kyushu, about 1,500 members of the Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade (ARDB) wearing camouflage lined up outside amid cold, windy weather.

    “Given the increasingly difficult defense and security situation surrounding Japan, defense of our islands has become a critical mandate,” Tomohiro Yamamoto, vice defense minister, said in a speech.


    The troops conducted a 20-minute mock public exercise recapturing a remote island from invaders.

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    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-bolster-defenses-against-china-idUSKCN1HE069

    Will be interesting to see how the Japanese Marines would do against China. Interesting video below....

     
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  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The SNLF were the elite infantry force of the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN), sometimes mistakenly referred to as the Imperial Navy's marines. They were the navy's assault force, organised to take beaches by storm, conquer the island they have been set upon, and then occupy it. Formed in the late 1920s, their first major operation was the Shanghai Incident in 1932, executing operations along the Chinese coast and up the Yangtze River.

    Each of the original four SNLF were established at the IJN's major ports, which gave the SNLF units their names: Kure, Maizuru, Sasebo, and Yokosuka. By 7 December 1941, there were 16 SNLF units and this was expanded to 21 during the war. The SNLF troops underwent intense training and were among the Emperor's most most skilled and loyal troops. The US reports on the SNLF placed them better trained and motivated than any Imperial Army formation, and noted that the SNLF placed greater emphasis on small unit operations. They were notably fierce in their determination, often to a fault when faced with impossible tasks.

    After the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the SNLF lead the way as the Japanese empire expanded into the South Pacific, fighting in all of the major island campaigns. The often victorious SNLF troops then entrenched on the islands they conquered, ensuring at least one more battle with the enemy when the war turned against the Empire of the Sun...
    http://www.scarybiscuitsstudios.com/2013/12/empire-of-sun.html
     
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  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    For those that do not know, the SNLF is the Special Naval Landing Force. And the terms used around the world for this type of force tends to bounce back and forth between "Marines", and "Naval Infantry".

    The UK went the route of making their Naval Infantry an autonomous force within their Navy, a model the US followed when it did the same thing. And most militaries that us or the UK trained (Philippines, South Korea, Vietnam, etc) follow the same model. A branch that is part of the Navy, but also independent. Designed to fight aboard ships, but also to conduct amphibious operations and guard naval bases.

    Most other countries still use the terminology of "Naval Infantry", and their forces are much more a part of the traditional Navy. Spain, Russia, Japan, Italy, France, they all follow that model.

    The easiest way to tell the difference is in their integration and their rank structure. Naval Infantry generally uses Naval Ranks, and is essentially part of the general navy. Commanders of Platoons are Ensigns, leaders of squads are Petty Officers. In a Marine unit, ranks generally follow Army traditions. Platoon Commanders are Lieutenants, and squad leaders are Sergeants.

    The WWII SNLF was a Navy unit, following Navy rank traditions and simply another part of the Navy. The new ARDB is essentially an Army unit that has been trained in Amphibious and Naval operations, and placed as an independent command within the JMSDF.

    Pretty much designed and trained and organized with the assistance of the USMC.

    http://www.atimes.com/article/japan-got-amphibious-rapid-deployment-brigade/

    And one advantage this new organization will have is that it is going to have a clean history, without all the baggage of WWII hanging over them.
     
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  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Soviets/Russians marines use the term "naval infantry."
    [​IMG]

    The only countries that have actual combat amphibious assault experience are the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Australia and Japan.

    The ROK Marines (Republic of Korea) have spent almost seven decades on amphibious operation assault training but I don't think they ever pulled off an actual combat amphibious assault but did participate in a number of amphibious assaults during the Vietnam War but didn't come ashore from the sea on amphibious boats (LCM/"Mike Boats" or on helicopters) but were used more as a blocking force for U.S. Marine amphibious assaults.

    ROK Marines were really good fifty years ago, don't know how good they are today but from what I hear they are still good.

    Taiwan has a marine corps and so do the Chi-Coms.
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh, there is at least one other.

    The Argentine Marine Corps participated in the Falklands War. Specifically, they kicked off the invasion with Operation Rosario. In this they used US made LAVs and LARCs to land on the beach outside of Port Stanley from the ARA Cabo San Antonio, a Tank Landing Ship based on the US made De Soto County class LST.

    [​IMG]

    Later on they participated in The Battle of Mount Tumbledown. This was a battle between Argentine Marines and The Scots Guards, Royal Commandos, and Royal Marines.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
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  6. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forgot about that one.
     
  7. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you think about the flag choice?

    Also, how do you think they would fare against China? I know almost nothing about China's Naval capabilities.

    Supposedly, high speed anti ship missiles are shaking things up in that area.
     
  8. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
    Flag of Japan

    The military is always about traditions.

    [​IMG]
    A rising sun flag is the military flag and ensign used primarily by the military forces of Imperial Japan and Japan's Self Defense Forces.
    It illustrates red sun rays that emanate from the red circle in the middle, which symbolizes the rising sun, as shared in the Japanese flag.


    China, and both Korea's aren't happy campers with Japan's military using the military rising sun flag for obvious reasons.
    See here -> http://english.anti-risingsunflag.net/


    Analysis: China Builds Amphibious Capabilities for Taiwan Scenario
      May 14, 2016

    China’s military is expanding its capabilities for an amphibious assault on the self-ruled island of Taiwan. This, according to the newly released "Annual Report to Congress: Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China," which is issued by the Pentagoneach year as mandated by the US Congress.

    China now has two amphibious mechanized infantry divisions, one amphibious armor brigade, 11 army aviation brigades and regiments, three Airborne divisions, and two Marine brigades. For the navy, new ships include 30 tank landing ships/amphibious transport docks, 22 medium landing ships, and China has signed significant purchase contracts with Ukraine for assault hovercraft.

    China's investments in its amphibious ship force signal China's intent to develop an expeditionary and over-the-horizon amphibious assault capability, said the report.

    "Since 2005, China has built three large Yuzhao-class (Type 071) amphibious transport docks with a fourth soon to enter service, providing considerably greater and more flexible capability for 'far seas' operations than the older landing ships." The Yuzhao can carry up to four of the new Yuyi-class, air-cushion medium landing craft and four or more helicopters, as well as armored vehicles and marines for long-distance deployments. Additional Yuzhao construction is expected to continue, as is a follow-on amphibious assault ship that is not only larger, but also incorporates a full flight deck for helicopters. Two Yuting II-class tank landing ships (LST) are currently being built to replace older LST units that are reaching the end of their service lives.

    The Pentagon report states that Chinese writings indicate there are different operational concepts for an amphibious invasion of Taiwan, but the most prominent of these is the Joint Island Landing Campaign, which envisions a complex operation relying on coordinated, interlocking campaigns for logistics, air, naval support and electronic warfare.

    "The objective would be to break through or circumvent shore defenses, establish and build a beachhead, transport personnel and materiel to designated landing sites in the north or south of Taiwan's western coastline, and launch attacks to seize and to occupy key targets or the entire island."



    The report appears skeptical China could successfully invade Taiwan at present. An attempt to invade Taiwan would strain China’s armed forces and invite international intervention, said the report. "These stresses, combined with China’s combat force attrition and the complexity of urban warfare and counterinsurgency (assuming a successful landing and breakout), make an amphibious invasion of Taiwan a significant political and military risk."

    However, China continues to improve its ability to conduct and sustain amphibious operations through its fleet modernization and joint exercise programs.

    In 2012, China and Thailand participated in a joint amphibious assault exercise dubbed "Blue Assault Force," but it was not until 2015 that China began serious amphibious exercise operations. In that year, China staged three joint landing exercises that tested its capabilities, marking an increase in the complexity of its amphibious training.

    In July 2015, China used a Zubr-class (Pomornik) air-cushioned landing craft for the first time in an actual ground-forces landing mode during a South Sea Fleet joint landing exercise. China also used Jinsha II-class/Type 722 (Yuyi) air-cushioned landing craft for the first time in an unfamiliar landing area — the naval equivalent of traveling to, and conducting landing operations within, an out-of-region training area. "Although the exercise was not large (just more than 20 vessels of 10 types participated), it was unique in that it reportedly was the PLA's first uncooperative, opposition force (OPFOR)-enabled joint amphibious operation."

    JOINT ACTION-2015B in the East Sea Fleet focused on mobilization, uploading, multi-modal transport, offloading and follow-on second-echelon assaults inshore. The primary participants were subordinate to the Nanjing Military Region, including elements of the 12th Group Army. "Participants were supported by civilian aircraft, vessels, facilities, and equipment. The exercise’s focus on operations following a landing suggests the PLA is confident in its ability to seize and to expand significant beachheads during an amphibious operation."

    JOINT MARITIME-2015 involved Chinese and Russian surface combatants, amphibious forces, and rotary- and fixed-wing aircraft, and involved a combined amphibious and air landing operations on the Russian coastline northeast of North Korea. "The number of participants was relatively small, however, and China probably did not gain much tactical insight."

    Taiwan remains China’s main "strategic direction," one of the geographic areas the leadership identifies as endowed with strategic importance. The island literally blocks China’s access to the Pacific Ocean; it must fly missions around the island as well as sail around the island to project force beyond China’s peripheral waters.

    https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-amphibious-capabilities-for-taiwan-scenario/

    Chinese navy’s amphibious capabilities continue to grow
    IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
    23 January 2018

    China's latest 20,000-tonne Yuzhao-class (Type 071) landing platform dock (LPD) vessel was launched on 20 January at the Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in Shanghai. It is the sixth ship of the class and joins the previous vessel, which was launched in June 2017, fitting out alongside. All ships of the class have been built at the Hudong-Zhonghua yard.

    The first Type 071 entered service with the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) in late 2007 and was joined by two others in 2011 and 2012. These first three ships are all based in the South Sea Fleet base in Zhanjiang, which is also close to the PLAN’s marine corps’ base.

    Unfortuantly, "Janes" may be the best source when it comes to any thing that is the military, but it ain't free and very expensive... -> http://www.janes.com/article/77247/chinese-navy-s-amphibious-capabilities-continue-to-grow
     
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  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I really do not care, to be honest. They are free to use whatever they like.

    As far as against China, that all depends on the kind of conflict. Since it is primarily a defense force, against any attack by China they should do very well.

    And "high speed missiles" are not what a lot of people seem to think they are. They have actually had very limited testing, and suffer from a lot of other problems such as target discrimination, problems locking onto specific targets, and a very small search area. All of these are related to the fact that they travel so fast that they have a hard time locating and hitting their target.

    Add to this that they are intended to be fired at long range (200-300+ miles) tells me that this is probably more effective as a deterrence weapon to keep enemies away by the threat of their use, more than an actual weapon to use against ships (not unlike say a nuclear missile).
     
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  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Marine Corps Times was a little slow on reporting the story but they add more to the story.

     
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  11. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had a little problem identifying what kind of rifles these Japanese naval infantrymen (marines) were using so I had to go on a snoop and poop mission.

    It's the Howa Type 89 rifle which is basically another Eugene Stoner ArmaLite invention, the AR-18 . AR-180

    Unlike the AR-15/M-16 and most other AR's that use a gas tube to cycle the action the AR-18/AR-180 and Howa Type 89 rifles use a short stroke gas piston just like used on M-1 Garands, M-14's, Ruger Mini-14's and FN-FAL's.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The Howa Type 89 Assault Rifle (89式小銃 hachi-kyū-shiki-shōjū), referred to as the type 89 5.56mm rifle (89式5.56mm小銃hachi-kyū-shiki-go-ten-go-roku-miri-shōjū), is a Japanese assault rifle used by the Japan Self-Defense Forces, the Japan Coast Guard's Special Security Team units, and the Special Assault Team. It was never exported outside Japan due to its strict anti-hardware export policy. It is known in JGSDF service as Buddy.

    It has replaced the Howa Type 64 battle rifle in frontline units...

    During the Vietnam War, the United States military replaced the M14 with the M16 for a variety of reasons, one of the most important being the advantage of increased rate of fire, light weight, and lower recoil of the 5.56×45mm NATO round over the larger 7.62×51mm NATO round. Despite the fact that this shortened the effective range of the average infantryman during a firefight, the 5.56×45mm round (SS109) eventually became the standard of ammunition type for all NATO member assault rifles. In accordance with this, the Japanese Defense Agency began development on their next generation assault rifle to replace the 7.62×51mm Type 64 battle rifle after its 25-year span of service.

    Development was handled primarily by Howa since it was already licensed to produce the AR-180 version of the Armalite AR-18 rifle for commercial purposes. In order to determine suitability of the rifle, it was issued in limited numbers to the Japan Self-Defense Forces for field testing purposes. After the data collected from the field testing stage of the AR-18 was examined, formal development of the next-generation assault rifle began with its designation as the HR-16 (HR1604).[9] The HR-15 was the first version of the experimental rifle that would eventually become the Type 89, but was developed concurrently with the HR-10, HR-11 and HR-13 by 1989...
    -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howa_Type_89



    The ArmaLite AR-18 is a gas-operated, selective-fire rifle chambered for 5.56×45mm NATO ammunition. The AR-18 was designed at ArmaLite in California by Arthur Miller, Eugene Stoner, George Sullivan, and Charles Dorchester in 1963 as an alternative to the ArmaLite AR-15 design, which had just been selected by the U.S. military as the M16. While the AR-18 was never adopted as the standard service rifle of any nation, its production licence was sold to companies in Japan and the United Kingdom, and it is said to have influenced many later weapons such as the British SA80, the Singaporean SAR-80 and SR-88,[4] the American Adaptive Combat Rifle, the Belgian FN F2000[5], the Japanese Howa Type 89 and the Heckler and Koch G36.[7] Through the Provisional IRA, which was noted for its use of the rifle, the rifle became known as the "Widowmaker"

    ArmaLite AR-18
    [​IMG]
    Construction and design
    Overall, the new AR-18 rifle is much more conventional than previous ArmaLite designs, although it uses the relatively new stamped steel construction from its predecessor, the AR-16. Despite being pioneered by the Germans during WW2 in weapons such as the MP44, and later adopted for the Soviet AKM, the use of stamped and welded sheet metal components was still uncommon in the manufacture of military rifles in the West in the early 1960s, which had, until then, largely retained the use of traditional machined forgings.Compared to the smooth lines of the AR-15, the AR-18 faced criticism over its stamped and welded construction, which had demonstrably greater tolerances in parts fit.However, the rifle proved to be both reliable and very accurate at all ranges up to 460 metres (500 yards). Its simple construction promised significantly reduced production costs, and allowed it to be licence-produced locally on less advanced machinery, potentially reducing dependence on foreign manufacturers. Moreover, the gas piston operation of the AR-18 proved much more resistant to carbon fouling than the direct gas impingement system of the earlier AR-10 and AR-15 rifles, as it does not vent gas and carbon particles directly into the receiver.

    The AR-18's action is powered by a short-stroke gas piston above the barrel. The gas piston is of 3-piece design to facilitate disassembly, with a hollow forward section with 4 radial gas vent holes fitting around a stainless steel gas block projecting rearwards from the foresight housing. The gas is vented from the barrel and travelled via a vent through the foresight housing into the hollow front section of the piston, which causes it to move rearwards a short distance. The rear end of the piston emerges through the barrel extension to contact the forward face of the bolt carrier, causing it in turn to move rearwards. The bolt itself is of similar configuration to the AR-15 with 7 radial locking lugs engaging corresponding recesses in the barrel extension, and the extractor in place of the 8th lug. The bolt is moved into and out of the locked position via a cam pin that engaged a helicalslot in the bolt carrier, which rides on two metal guide rods (each with its own return spring) instead of contacting the receiver walls, providing additional clearance for foreign matter entering the receiver. Unlike the AR-15, the cocking handle fits directly into a recess in the bolt carrier and reciprocates with it during firing, allowing the firer to force the breech closed or open if necessary. The cocking handle slot has a spring-loaded cover that can be closed by the user to prevent debris entering the receiver, and it will open automatically as the bolt carrier moves rearwards after the first shot. The recoil springs are housed within the receiver, differing from the AR-15 which houses its more elaborate buffer mechanism in the buttstock. The AR-18's compact design enables the use of a side-folding stock with a hinging mechanism (which proved to be less than adequately rigid).

    The sights are of similar design and sight picture to those of the AR-15 - a 2-position flip aperture rear sight and post foresight - but the rear sight is made of stampings. A notable change is the use of a more conventional lower sight line closer to the axis of the bore, in contrast to the elevated sights of the AR-15. A dovetail is spot welded to the receiver in front of the rear sight for a proprietary ArmaLite quick-detachable scope mount.

    Overall, the design is simple and effective with some clever touches; for example the bolt guide rod assembly guides the bolt in the receiver, retains the recoil springs and the rear end of the top handguard, as well as serving as the latch holding the upper and lower receivers together in the closed position. Disassembly is somewhat similar to the AR-15, with the working parts accessed by the rifle pivoting open on a hinge pin immediately forward of the magazine well..-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-18
     
  12. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never understood why the ar18/180 didnt see more popularity. Its claim to fame was being cheaper to produce.
     
  13. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like the Marines have a new partner in the region.

    I wonder what china and north korea think.
     
  14. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think for the same reason why the AR-15 wasn't popular until the 1980's.

    The AR-15 hit the sporting good stores back in 1962 and was sold as a hunting rifle. Most hunters looked at the AR-15 as being cheap, stamped steel instead of cold hard forged steel that was milled.

    Back in the day, Americans demanded quality craftsmanship. Something that will last a life time.

    Even today the M-16's, M-4's, etc. in the military have about a 30 years service life span before needing to be replaced. Combat rifles before the M-16 and AK-47 like bolt action Springfields, Mausers, Schmidt and Rubins, Mosin-Nagant's and Enfields, some being almost a hundred years old are still shooting, are accurate and as deadly as when they were first manufactured. There are still hundreds of thousands of M-1 Garands that have seen combat that are 70 years old and still shoot are accurate and deadly.


    Who made the AR-15 and all AR's so popular ? Liberals and liberal anti gun policies.
    Liberals have been America's best gun salesmen for the past 38 years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
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