Jesus Christ and The Noble Qu'ran

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by delade, May 15, 2017.

  1. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Now that we know that Islam is not anti-Christian nor anti-Jesus, I can feel much more assured that Muslims are not out to 'rid' the earth of 'infidels'. With all the scare of past Islamic Extremists rhetoric of how every non Allah believer should perish being pushed back into the proper knowledge of things, it helps me sleep alot better and associate with Muslims a lot easier knowing that they are not anti Jesus.

    Surah Ali 'Imran Ayah 45

    SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

    [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].

    So obviously, Allah gave the good Word that the Name of the son of Mary, Isa, is also known by Allah as The Messiah..

    So if for any chance any Muslim or Islamic extremists say that Allah does not recognize Jesus, the Son of Marium as The Messiah, you can confidently tell that person this chapter and verse.
    Surah Ali Imran , Ayah 45.

    Thanks be to God!!

    If they still want to contend and dispute, you can add this to it.

    Surah Marium, Ayah 34
    "Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute."

    And once again we can see how the wolves in sheep's clothing in the world seek to draw away the faithful by promoting and defending the lies against the Truth of both The Holy Bible and the Noble Qur'an.

    It is so much easier living with Truth rather than fleeing from lies...

    HalleluYah! HalleluAllah! In The Name of Jesus Christ; Isa, the Son of Marium... HalleluYah! HalleluAllah!.. If Allah/YHWH can acknowledge Jesus the Messiah as 'Worthy', so can I!!!



    إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَىٰ إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَجَاعِلُ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوكَ فَوْقَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ۖ ثُمَّ إِلَيَّ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَأَحْكُمُ بَيْنَكُمْ فِيمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ - 3:55



    Surah Ali 'Imran Ayah 55
    [Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ."

    .... the raising up to Myself is referring to the Resurrection and Ascension and the Day of Resurrection is referring to The Day of Christ, otherwise known as, The Last Day.

    Surah Ali 'Imran Ayah 52
    "But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

    Surah Az-Zukhruf ; Ayah 63, 64
    And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me. Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is a straight path."



    Surah Al-An'am; Ayah 85, 86
    And Zechariah and John and Jesus and Elias - and all were of the righteous. And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot - and all [of them] We preferred over the worlds.

    Surah As-Saf; Ayah 6
    And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic."

    (Jesus fulfilled The Torah and He also prophesied of a 'messenger' who would come after Him whose name is Ahmad (Muhammad)).

    Surah Al-Ma'idah; Ayah 114
    Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table [spread with food] from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers."

    Surah Al-Ma'idah; Ayah 46
    And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.


    Surah An-Nisa; Ayah 159
    And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness.


    And with such clear evidences, the Noble Quran proves that Jesus Christ; Isa the son of Marium, is The Messiah..

    Surah Marium, Ayah 34
    "Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute."
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
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  2. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, Qu'ran should be spelt Qur'an; with the apostrophe after the r and not before it. Sorry.
     
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  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    You may have some small points for the minority of Islam but the majority shows itself to be way over on the right of the religious spectrum and quite intolerant, homophobic and misogynous.

    That is why Islam has had to grown itself by the sword instead of good deeds.

    Do you deny any of what I put?

    If so, have a look at these stats and note the intolerance even to your own, in terms of the equality of women and gays, as well as killing your own apostates.



    Regards
    DL
     
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  4. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Let us all try a new thing... Let us all try to have 'respect', one to another.... LORD, in Thy Son's Name, Jesus Christ, I ask. Amen.
     
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  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Respect for one another? Now that's an anti-religious idea that goes against every religious doctrine.
     
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  6. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    I am not denying any of what you put.. In fact, Christianity is 'guilty' of the same 'wrong doing'.

    For example, The Holy Bible clearly says that any man which lies with mankind as with womankind, that it is an abomination. But many Christian Churches skim right over the abominable and allow such practices to be almost 'defended' by themselves.

    And it is the same with Islam. Although the Qur'an clearly states what 'is' and what is 'not' acceptable to Allah, many Muslims skim over the text and add in their own interpretation of what Allah said.

    Saying that God meant good when He said 'bad' is not religious at all. A person should not call God a liar by saying that what HE had already said was NOT what HE originally meant... I personally cannot tell you nor anyone else what God 'meant' except what God Himself has said..
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  7. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Romans 12:17
    Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
    (honesty is respectable)
    12:18
    If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


    Philippians 2:3-4
    "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others."

    The word 'respect' may not be included, but if another person did these things to/for me, I would feel respected as a person who was being treated as a decent human being.. When another person treats me without such 'common respects or common courtesies', it makes me to feel as if they think of me as some arrogant self conceited snob. But strangely all of those negatives would be coming from their own self assumptions rather than the truths and fruits which may be very evident in my life... Call it a discriminatory prejudicial opinionated disrespect... Their free right to show disrespect to any person whom they wish to show disrespect to would be based upon any whim of feeling or thought they might have which is something many persons may have never experienced in their entire lifetime..
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  8. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I can give you a 100 verses that counter those. The First Command says to invade other people's land, destroy their religious artifacts, and kill them if they don't want to become slaves.

    Christians and muslims aren't suppose to be friends with non-believers.
     
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  9. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean 'The First Command'? Whose 'command' is it? In fact, the first Command in The Holy Bible was not said for mankind. God spoke the very first Command when HE said, 'Let there be Light'. If you or anybody else has a 'problem' living because God created Light, then you need to take it to HIM rather than to the others which came after God created The Light.

    I mean, truly, how long would YOU be able to empathize with someone who was mad or sad because he or she had to live under God's Creation??

    It is very true that some people have lived through very abusive parental guidance and even 'love' relationships. And it is very true that such experiences can cause that person to begin hating the Creator of Life. But maybe instead of hating God because of experiential pains, the person might fare better if they actually took time to get to know if God truly IS the ONE who is sending such devastations into their life...

    Assumptions have led to many innocent prison terms...

    Please keep in mind, as strange as it is, there ARE persons who actually get a 'kick' out of spreading blasphemous lies about God and God's very Own Christ. Why? I don't know... They 'know' that they are lying but they persist in their lying even when they KNOW that what they are doing is spreading lies. They are not sincerely searching for answers nor sincerely seeking for the questions to be answered. They are getting a 'kick' out of spreading libel about God in written from and slander about God in verbal form. They just get a 'kick' out of it when all the while many individual lives are being ruined because of those lies... But for me to 'assume' that they enjoy wrecking person's lives, would be wrong. Maybe they have a strange form of mental 'illness'? I don't know...

    There is a diagnosis for those who 'habitually lie', I think...
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I made a typo. It's the First Commandment, Exodus 34:11-16 (CEB) =
    "11 Be sure to obey what I command you today. I’m about to drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 12 Be careful that you don’t make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a dangerous trap for you. 13 You must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stone pillars, and cut down their sacred poles. 14 You must not bow down to another god, because the Lord is passionate: the Lord’s name means “a passionate God.” 15 Don’t make a covenant with those who live in the land. When they prostitute themselves with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, they may invite you and you may end up eating some of the sacrifice. 16 Then you might go and choose their daughters as wives for your sons. And their daughters who prostitute themselves with their gods might lead your sons to prostitute themselves with their gods."
     
  11. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Exodus 20:1
    And God spake all these words, saying,

    20:2
    I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    20:3
    Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


    20:4
    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

    20:5
    Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


    20:6
    And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  12. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Ask yourself why God might have commanded what He did. When God said to be sure to obey what He commanded on that day, what did HE command? He did not command to drive out the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. HE did not say a command for His people to do these things. HE said 'I'm' about to.... He did not say 'You must'...

    And if 'respect' is the idea in question.... God did truly say to "Be careful that you don’t make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a dangerous trap for you. 13 You must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stone pillars, and cut down their sacred poles."

    And so here is another question... Was the 'Land' which God had prepared for Israel 'stolen' from the original inhabitants? We must look at who lived in those places and from where those people came from to inhabit there.

    If we look further 'back' in The Holy Bible, we see that after the flood of the world, after all was destroyed, only Noah, his children and his children's wives were on the planet. The animals as well. And it was from these 2nd set of parentages in which the earth was repopulated.

    After the sons of Noah began having children to themselves, they sought to build a tower to reach the Heavens. And God came down and twisted their tongues so that their languages became strange to one another. All the people of the Earth at that time spoke only 1 language. But after their visitation with God, they could not understand what the others were saying. And so this is how we got to the different languages and land territories in which the 'groups' of persons who understood the spoken language convened and settled in. 1 group went perhaps East and another group went West, etc.... They could not understand the new languages which God had formed.

    Genesis 11:9
    "Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth."

    And so, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites are all descendants of one of Noah's original 3 sons..

    Students of Language Origins and Histories agree that 3 language 'groups' exist.
    1. The Indo-European languages/Indo-Iranian group of languages
    2. The Semitic family of languages
    3. Afro-Asiatic family of languages.

    Noah had 3 sons. Shem Ham and Japheth

    Genesis 10:1
    "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood."

    From Shem, we might get the 'Semitic' languages.

    From Ham, we might get the Afro-Asiatic languages.. Ham was the Father of Egypt as well as the Father of Canaan.
    Genesis 10:6 "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan."
    Mizraim is the Hebrew and Aramaic name for the land of Egypt, with the dual suffix -āyim, perhaps referring to the "two Egypts": Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizraim

    From Japheth, we might get the Indo-European/Indo-Iranian Languages.

    So perhaps the 'invasion' which you spoke of earlier might be nothing more than the curse Noah placed upon:
    "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
    And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren." Genesis 9:24-25

    "And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
    God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant." Genesis 9:26-27
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The items in Exodus chapter 20 are not the Ten Commandments. They were never written on the stone tablets and they were not called the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments that were written on stone tablets and called the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 34:12:28.


    They try to pass off the ones in Exodus chapter 20 as the Ten Commandments because the real ones in Exodus 34 are highly ethnocentric and non-Jews would not want to adopt them. The posting community has discussed this countless times on other threads. If you want you can simply read the Bible for yourself starting with Exodus 20:1 - Exodus 34:35. Make notes as you read each series of verses. By the time you finish you will understand the fairy tale and realize that you've been deceived all of your life.
     
  14. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    What does Exodus 34:13 say? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus34:13&version=KJV;NKJV;CEV;MSG;CEB. Who did all of the countless genocides in the Old Testament and why did they do them? They were following the First Commandment.
     
  15. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    When we take our minds out of our current living situations and assumptions that peoples back in those days lived as we do now, we can get a more rounded idea of what their daily lives may have been like. Remember, they did not have these things which we have today. There were no airplanes doing air strikes. There were no steel armoured tanks speeding into the villages. There was no telephones, no videos, no cameras. Everything we have seen of how the older generations lived were all taken with modern technology. The camera, the video camera, etc... The pictures we see with people living in villages and such today live within the time frame of technological advances. The times before these technological times cannot be thought of how they might have lived except to look at their cave drawings and to try and decipher their written language or to try and decipher anything they may have used to 'write' down what was occurring during their lifetimes..

    Just try and imagine how difficult it must have been for a huge group of peoples walking in and through desert for 40 years... All sand.. Maybe trees..Maybe mountains... But these people were in the desert for 40 years wandering in the desert. I have never been in nor seen the desert in which they 'wandered' in for 40 years... It might be vast or it might not... But the People who left Egypt were within this desert and wilderness for 40 years... So to assume that they could have just entered in any new land to take it over as if entering into a school ground to take it over is wrong...

    However 1 thing is for certain. God does not like nor is pleased with unwarranted disrespect or outright discourtesy, otherwise known as 'rude'.

    And perhaps the inhabitants of those lands in which God drove out, were of such doings...

    You are aware of what the 'sin(s)' of Sodom were, right? Not only were they sexually loose, they were also...
    Ezekiel 16:49-50 King James Version (KJV)
    "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
    And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

    Sodom was a city after the Flood and after the Tower of Babel..

    Take note of how God refers to Sodom as a 'she' or sister. God does not refer to Sodom as 'he' or brother...

    The definition of 'sodomy' to refer to anal intercourse which has been attributed to 'gay males' may not have originated in the city of Sodom to the large extent which many people might think. In fact, male temple prostitutes were put in place as a means to offer 'prayers' to the local deities. These male temple prostitutes is where 1 Corinthians 6:9 can be affliliated with. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,..."

    Today, people loosely give the term 'homosexual' in lieu 'abusers of themselves with mankind' which may not be all together true....

    The male temple prostitutes may have cut and lashed upon themselves as well as the payee to have the prayers heard, as well as performing the male to male intercourse which began much before such male temple prostitutes were instituted by those regions and territories...

    1 Kings 18:27-29
    "And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

    And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.

    And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded."

    Although there was a difference between a prophet of baal and a male temple prostitute, they may have practiced the same forms of worship and such...

    With the entry of 'baal' worship into Israel from Zidon, sodomy came in also..
    1 Kings 14:24 King James Version (KJV)
    "And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel."

    1 Kings 15:12
    "And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made."

    1 Kings 22:46
    " And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land."

    2 Kings 23:7
    "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord, where the women wove hangings for the grove."

    The 'houses of the sodomites' in 2 Kings 23:7 could have been the houses of such male temple prostitutes and its adherents.

    And of course, if having such 'houses of the sodomites' and such others is profitable for personal gain, either for financial, fame or power levels, however way it might be, those who are made lucrative by such 'houses of the sodomites' will do almost anything to keep such places in tact rather than having them taken out of the way...which might lead to their downfall...

    And who might be the one(s) who would not desire such practices on the Earth to be taken out of the way?

    The houses of the sodomites might have been houses which kept the prideful, those who were of fulness of bread, abundance of idleness (in her and in her daughters), those who did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy, the haughty, and those who committed abomination before God: as well as the male temple prostitutes..

    Sounds very 'elite' and full of luxury to me.. It reminds me somewhat of the Greek Senate...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    According to the fairy tale people had enough water in the desert to take weekly baths and they had some fancy textile mills, wood-working, and metal-working facilities as well.

    Seeing that the Egyptian Empire extended all the way to the Euphrates River it's far more likely that Egypt left the Israelites instead of the Israelites leaving Egypt.
     
  17. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    Well however way you want to look at it... Back in those days the Euphrates River did not run through the Negev Desert. And whether or not they needed to stay hygenically clean everyday so as to not offend any others might not have been too much of a concern but rather getting into the safe place they left out of Egypt for... It is like telling Muslim migrants that they need to stay outwardly clean while on their travels into the new lands...
     
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  18. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    And besides, if Egypt would have been nice enough to let the Hebrews go when requested, there would have been no calamities which followed..

    Holding people captive beyond their desires is kidnapping in modern terms... It's strange how God's disdain towards kidnapping then might be the same way we feel towards kidnapping now, huh? But it took mankind over 2 or 3 Thousand years to get to this adult and sophisticated level when it comes to disdain towards kidnapping???

    Which kind of shows how violent they may have been back then.... And violence then might have been like any other ordinary daily thing....

    Would you rather have lived in those days or are you grateful for not???

    Being whacked on with a big steel piece of object for doing absolutely nothing might not have been too pleasing but expected... Even in the most recent Roman and Grecian Empires, soldiers had full rights to cut off anyone's hand as they wished and for whatever reason they had, I think.. And so, you had to be extra 'nice' to everyone... And with such false pretenses and false authorities, pride and gloating would have been prevalent. Especially if you belonged to those persons who had the power and right to step on anyone they wanted without having to fear any Judicial repercussion. It would have been like associating with the Elites of the is.IL group in certain parts of The Middle East when they were in full authority over the regions they terrorized. If anyone spoke out against them, even Restaurant owners, Hotel Owners, etc.. they would have been hacked...
     
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  19. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    And so to prevent any future calamities, it would be more than wise for me to treat others with 'respect' and hopefully they could return the blessings back and with such practices, the 'good' can spread to others... And maybe this is a reason why God said to return not cursing for cursing but rather blessing for cursing...
     
  20. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    But knowing what the Noble Qur'an says about Isa/Jesus, The Son of Mary, is one small step for man; ONE HUGE step for mankind...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
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  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Defaulting to spelling nazi mode is normally the sign of a weak mind.

    Don't be sorry but, do get some material of merit.
     
  22. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    You want us to respect a slave owning religion and the men who perpetuate it.

    No thanks. I am trying hard to be a moral man and morals does not seem to apply to Islam.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  23. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    I agree that Christianity is just as morally reprehensible as Islam.

    They do not practice their barbarism the way Islam does though.

    Slavery has been pretty well outlawed in the world yet some of Islam still sell their daughters and enslave their wives.

    Regards
    DL
     
  24. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    What is the penalty in Islam for apostasy and does it include peace with the apostate?

    Regards
    DL
     
  25. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Even Universities are pointing to those who do an d the more we educate our children, the more they recognize and reject those liars and their religions. Perhaps this link will educate you a bit and you will be able to tell lies your have been fed from truth that you have yet to know.



    Regards
    DL
     

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