Jordan is Palestine

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by MGB ROADSTER, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    http://www.jordanispalestine.com/

    An Arab Palestine is a fallacy – it is based on lies and misconceptions. There has never, in the history of the world, been a nation of Palestine. Is this just a radical pro-Israel viewpoint or is it a universal truth that can be proven in many ways? This website is inspired by Geert Wilders, a Dutch Parliamentarian, who said in June 2010 that “Jordan is Palestine”.

    Okay, so where is this proof? The most important proofs for this are historic maps of Palestine, and quotes from so-called “Palestinian” leaders over the years, showing that Palestine, as a distinct identity, never existed – EVER! There were times of Muslim rule over Palestine at several points in history, but Palestine was always part of a larger entity and it’s inhabitants never had anything that distinguished them from others in the vicinity – they had the same language, names, monetary system, government, culture and artifacts of those in neighbouring areas. This website explores the question of just who the Palestinians are and why Jordan should be called Palestine, and NOT the West Bank or Gaza.

    I find that article true and ahead of it's time.
    When they wrote it they did not realize That King Hussain will start suffering the "Muslim spring".
    Cheers
     
  2. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Then why did the British promise a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and why did Lord Rothschild accept it on behalf of world Jewry?

    Regarding there never having been a nation called Palestine .... so what?

    There never was a nation called Namibia, was there, MGB Roadster? Do you therefore seriously want to claim that Zionists can build settlements there subject to Israeli law?

    Or in Tanzania? Or in Chile? Or in Costa Rica? or in Canada? Or in Australia. Or for that matter in the USA?

    YAWN :yawn:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Top Israeli archaeologists have shown that the Jews originated from Canaanite nomads who settled in the uplands of Palestine and adopted a monotheistic faith. Conversions engulfed the rest of Canaan over numerous centuries. Are these top Israeli scientist delusionary? HBendor thinks they are, even though he professes great respect for their findings.

    Top Israeli scientists have shown that the DNA of the more pure Jews and that of the Palestinians is all but indistinguishable. The Cohenic (priestly) gene is considered to represent the purest of the Jewish line. Many Palestinians carry it.

    The Palestinians and the purer Levant Jews are therefore close blood brothers (I do not refer to the blonde Ashkenazim). So if Palestinians have no claim to the Holy Land that means that Jews ..... (join the dots)
     
    Margot and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Geert Wilders? LOLOLOL
     
  4. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Palestine, as a distinct identity, never existed – EVER!
    But it will change soon when the palestinians will take over Jordan :thumbsup:
     
  5. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Aliens Arabs from Trans-Jordan and Syria during the Mandatory British Control

    We emphasize that “under the Immigration Ordinance persons habitually resident in Trans-Jordan may, unless the High Commissioner otherwise directs, enter Palestine direct from Trans-Jordan although they are not in possession of passports or other similar documents”. The Yale study also mentions this phenomenon in relation to both Jews and Arabs. The nature of the situation makes it difficult to arrive at precise and authorized figures on Arab immigration to Palestine between the two world wars. Estimates range from 60,000 to 200,000. There is general agreement, however, on one point: The chief reason for the reversal of Arab population movement was the Jewish settlement and development of the land, which altered its aspect and created sources of livelihood previously non-existent.

    James Parkes elaborates this point in his book A History of Palestine from 135 AD to Modern Times (p. 320): “The Arab population continued to grow at a phenomenal rate, there was a substantial illegal immigration of Arabs especially from the Hauran (the Golan heights), and Arab prosperity increased through the increased activity of the Jewish community and the many new openings for employment which it offered.”

    Luke and Keith-Roach, high-ranking officials in the Mandatory government, in the 1934 edition of their Handbook of Palestine (p. 41) describe “the continuous replenishment of Palestine and Syria from the tribes of the Arabian Desert.” And we find, in the discussions of the League of Nations Mandates Commission in 1935, reference to the report of the governor of Syria’s Hauran district that during a period of a few months of the previous year thirty thousand Hauranese (GOLAN) had emigrated to Palestine and settled there (Permanent Mandates Commission, 27th Session, l935,p. 47). During the riots of 1936-1939 mercenaries from Syria and Lebanon were brought into the country and many stayed after the disturbances had subsided...
     
  6. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    I am REALLY pleased that you posted that, HBendor. Because the link to where you posted it before has been broken during maintenance of old threads. Thank you for this new opportunity to demonstrate your 'style'. This is your piece where you misquote the British authorities; where you cherry-pick, all so as to make points by distorting the very essence of the British reports. This is the low form of debating that you practice that I previously referred to.

    [​IMG]

    WHEEEEE!!!

    .... hang onto yer britches ... the unmasking will be continued ....
     
  7. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    More and more people around the world start to realize that Jordan is the Real Palestinian state.
    The train has left it's station.
    The snow ball is going bigger & wider as we speak.
    AlllLa U aKbar
     
  8. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    .... until they speak to the Bedouin, the REAL people of Jordan.

    As a South African I can assure you that the Apartheid regime would have welcomed you with open arms. Roadster.

    They too tossed folk off their lands -- ethnically cleansed them -- and then pointed and claimed ... "But here is your homeland!!! Look, when we forced you into it, you became greater numbers there than in "White" South Africa. The Bantustans are clearly the black people's territory."

    And that is EXACTLY the same as what you have been trying to hammer into us over the past week about Jordan

    And they say that the Zionists are not Apartheidists at heart!!!!! The truth will out. Snowballs are also white

    Thank you for that golden opportunity to illustrate this principal.
     
  9. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    I understand that every time you do not know what to say, you attack personally...
    [B]More and more people around the world start to realize that Jordan is the Real Palestinian state.[/B]
     
  10. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    from the title to the website.

    Clear this poster is actually a troll trying to create something that does not exist, in reality.

    try history from a government and not idiots and bigots

    ie..... nothing of an exodus to an egyptian held land. Meaning, if the exodus was to a promised land, it was not palestine/canaan because during any exodus period, all that land was egyptian held. So there was no vacant fertile lands that moses was promised in that whole region, because it was all egyptian, during that time.


    How can an exodus from egypt be to an egyptian held region?

    it is one of the conflicts that archeology has proven that discredits the theological beliefs


    a) this thread is by a troll to troll

    b) Palestine/jordan includes jerusalem

    c) the was no jewish exodus to a palestine held by egyptians
     
  11. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Why do u keep on telling stories about 1482 BCE & Middle Bronze Age 1550 BCE ??
    We are having major changes in the 21st cetury, one of them is the Arab spring ( Winter ) , The other is the situation in Syria.
    Add those 2 togheter and see that King Hussain will fall ( i believe it will be in the next 24 months max ) and Jordan will be Palestine.
    Even if you do not think it will happen, you know in your heart there is a small chance.. it friks you out.
     
  12. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Let me give some substance to your post since here (at least) you have the backing of people in authority!



    LET THEM SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES

    CONCERNING PALESTINE EAST OF THE RIVER JORDAN

    King Abdullah, at the Meeting of the Arab League, Cairo, 12th April 1948:

    "Palestine and Transjordan are one, for Palestine is the coastline and Transjordan the hinterland of the same country."

    George Habash, leader of the PFLP section of the PLO, writing in the PLO publication
    Sha-un Falastinia, February 1970:

    "Let us not forget the East Bank of the (River) Jordan, where seventy per cent of the inhabitants belong to the Palestinian nation."

    Prince Hassan, brother of King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly,
    2nd February 1970:

    "Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate."

    King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly, 2nd February 1972:

    "There is no family on the East Bank of the river (Jordan) that does not have relatives on the West Bank ... no family in the west that does not have branches in the east."

    King Hussein, quoted in An-Hahar, Beirut, 24th August 1972:

    "We consider it necessary to clarify to one and all, in the Arab world and outside, that the
    PALESTINIAN PEOPLE with its nobility and conscience is to be found HERE on the EAST
    Bank (of the Jordan River), The WEST Bank and the Gaza Strip. Its overwhelming majority is
    HERE and nowhere else."
    =
    King Hussein, on Amman Radio, 3rd February 1973:

    "The Palestinians here constitute not less than one half of the members of the armed forces. They and their brothers, the sons of Transjordan, constitute the members of one family who are equal in everything, in rights and duties." (Quoted by BBC Monitoring Service)

    Hamdi Ken'an, former Mayor of Nablus, writing in the newspaper Al-Quds, 14th March 1973:

    "There are, as well, links of geography and history, and a wide range of interests between the two Banks (of the River Jordan) which have grown stronger over the past twenty years. Let us not forget that el-Salt and Nablus were within the same district - el-Balka - during the Ottoman period, and that family and commercial ties bound the two cities together."

    Sherif Al-Hamid Sharaf, Representative of Jordan at the UN Security Council, 11th June 1973:

    "The new Jordan, which emerged in 1949, was the creation of the Palestinians of the West Bank and their brothers in the East. While Israel was the negation of the Palestinian right of self-determination, unified Jordan was the expression of it."

    Editorial Comment in the Jordanian Armed Forces' weekly, Al-Aqsa, Amman, 11th July 1973:

    Past "President Bourguiba (of Tunisia) considers Jordan an artificial creation presented by Great Britain to King Abdullah. But he accepts Palestine and the Palestinians as an existing and primary fact since the days of the Pharaohs. Israel, too, he considers as a primary entity. However, Arab history makes no distinction between Jordanians, Syrians and Palestinians. Most of them hail from the same Arab race, which arrived in the region with the Arab Moslem conquest."

    Past President Bourguiba of Tunisia, in a public statement, July 1973:

    "With all respect to King Hussein, I suggest that the Emirate of Transjordan was created from oil cloth by Great Britain, which for this purpose cut up ancient Palestine. To this desert territory to the bast of the Jordan (River)., it gave the name Transjordan. But there is nothing in history which carries this name. While since our earliest time there was Palestine and Palestinians. I maintain that the matter of Transjordan is an artificial one, and that Palestine is the basic problem. King Hussein should submit to the wishes of the people, in accordance with the principles of democracy and self-determination, so as-to avoid the fate of his grandfather, Abdullah, or of his cousin, Feisal, both of whom were assassinated."

    King Hussein, addressing an American Delegation, 19th February 1975:

    "The Palestinians and the Jordanians have created on this soil since 1948 one family - all of whose children have equal rights and obligations."

    Editorial Comment in the publication The Economist of 19th July 1975:

    "How much better off Hussein would be if he had been induced to abandon his pose as a benevolent 'host' to 'refugees' and to affirm the fact that Jordan is the Palestinian Arab nation-state, just as Israel is the Palestinian Jewish nation-state."

    King Hussein, writing in his Memoirs:

    "Palestine and Jordan were both (by then) under British Mandate, but as my grandfather pointed out in his memoirs, they were hardly separate countries. Transjordan being to the east of the River Jordan, it formed in a sense, the interior of Palestine."

    Yassir Arafat, in a statement to Eric Roleau:

    "...those fishing in troubled waters will not succeed in dividing our people, which extends to both sides of the (River) Jordan, in spite of the artificial boundaries established by the Colonial Office and Winston Churchill half a century ago."

    The Sunday newspaper The Observer of 2nd March 1976, reported that:
    "Palestinian Arabs hold seventy-five per cent of all government jobs in Jordan."
    The Egyptian newspaper Al Ahram of 5th March 1976, reported that:
    "Palestinian Arabs control over seventy per cent of Jordan's economy."

    Farouk Kadoumi, head of the PLO Political Department, quoted in Newsweek, 14th March 1977:

    "There should be a kind of linkage because Jordanians and Palestinians are considered by the PLO as one people."

    From a commentary which was broadcast by Radio Amman, 30th June 1980:

    "Along these lines, the West German Der Spiegel magazine this month cited Dr George Habash, leader of one of the Palestinian organizations, as saying that 70 per cent of Jordan's population are Palestinians and that the power in Jordan should be seized." (Translated by BBC Monitoring Service)

    Marwan al Hamoud, member of the Jordanian National Consultative Council and former
    Minister of Agriculture, quoted by Al Rai, Amman, 24th September 1980:

    "Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine but, rather, Jordan is Palestine
    and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations, both day and night.

    Though we are all Arabs and our point of departure is that we are all members of the same people, the Palestinian-Jordanian nation is one and unique, and different from those of the other Arab states.

    Richard Owen, in an article published in The Times, 14th November 1980:

    "The potential weak spot in Jordan is that most of the population are not, strictly speaking, Jordanian at all, but Palestinian. An estimated 60 per cent of the country's 2,500,000 people are Palestinians ... Most of these hold Jordanian passports, and many are integrated into Jordanian society."
     
  13. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    The following has an interesting history. HBendor posted on a similar theme a few years ago, but the thread was deleted during site maintenance. A month or so ago I quoted HB’s original attempt to show that the Palestinians did not originate in Palestine and he vehemently denied ever having distorted Palestinian growth numbers or Mandate reports.

    Luckily he has now repeated his claims (first quote below), plus also posted on the exact same theme on another forum (second quote below), where his position was annihilated. Hang onto your britches, HB:
    Here is HBendor’s other post from 2010. Bear with me and you will see where this is all going. It might take another post to make it clear:
    As Erskine Childers suggested, we should check all Zionist claims as to "facts". Let us do that, shall we?

    ----- (to be continued) -----
     
  14. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Actually the plains of Moab...

    ... which are the territory of the tribes of Reuben, Gad and the half tribe of Manasseh..

    ... which are east of the Jordan river, across from Jericho...

    ... are considered part of Canaan/Palestine/Israel.
     
  15. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Before we check on HBendor's favourite "proofs" that the Palestinians did not originate in Palestine (LOL), HB here is a reminder of the hard facts presented to you showing exactly the contrary:
    Click here: http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/286165-legal-case-israel-7.html#post1062223698
    and here: http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-world-news/286165-legal-case-israel-7.html#post1062226566
    .... you will find all of the following:

    # Various examples of Palestinians still practicing Jewish customs
    # A top Israeli scientist, Prof Ariela Oppenheim, on video record stating that DNA of the Palestinians and that of the Jews is all but indistinguishable - they are blood brothers
    # The same scientist making known that the gene which is the 'holy of holies' amongst the purest Jews (the Cohen haplotype) is also carried by Palestinians
    # Where even more support is given by studies by Almut Nebel of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem "Their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes - what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants" - just so utterly in the face of HBendor's claims
    # Where Rabbi Dov Stein attest to Islamification of Jewish villages in Palestine not 200 years ago. He attests that over 80% of Palestinians are of Jewish ancestry. This is perfectly in line with the scientific studies above.
    # Where David Ben-Gurion admits “If we investigate the origins of the Felahim (Palestinians) there is no doubt that much Jewish blood runs in their veins.” The authors (Ben-Gurion) implied that these Jews loved the Land so much that they were willing to give up their religion and convert to Islam. Again in perfect harmony with the scientific findings

    But do you think that HBendor will even acknowledge these counter facts, let alone accept them? No - he posts amazing concoctions about Jewish maidens which is just so easily trashed.

    But I will not be guilty of that. In my next post I will pay his "facts" the respect they so richly deserve.

    ---- (to be continued) ----
     
  16. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Now there is a decent historically accurate post.
    Indeed, part of Jordan was inhabited by the descendent of the Canaanites - namely the Jews and the Palestinians - the Plains of Moab, as Waltky posted. These plains are the lowlands immediately east of the Jordan. They constitute less than 3% of what is Jordan.

    Now do the math regarding the OP - Jordan = Palestine. Yup, we can see the logical fallacy :)
     
  17. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    No comments hmmm... I thought so... You cannot trash (your word) the blue post... for it is not mine exclusively...
    So we come to the conclusion that you are one unusual person living in England and TRASHING Israel... Your preferred word!
     
  18. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    --- (continued) --- [the 'to be continued' must have escaped you, HB]

    [If the relayed link to HBendor's 2010 post does not work for you, here is the direct link - http://www.forum4politics.com/middle-east/135175-when-arab-something-else-3.html#post2607943 ]

    And here is my reply to him at the time - http://www.forum4politics.com/2609230-post26.html :

    So what does all of that mean? Let us summarise:

    # The data for Palestinian growth figures after WW1 as quoted by HBendor are false. Bang goes his main evidence that there had to be immigration and not natural growth
    # The British authorities rejected out of hand the possibility of large (permanent) immigrations from Hauran.

    I will post more rebuttal from these commission reports in my next post

    ---- (to be continued) ----
     
  19. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    --- (Continued) ----

    All that remains is to refute the Frankenstein claims of large-scale Arab immigration into Palestine and in doing so to confirm the view of the mandate authorities that there were no such immigrations. And lo and behold this had all been done previously in 2010 - here: http://www.forum4politics.com/2616152-post28.html
    And what was HBendor’s response at the time? Here it is:
    That was it. And here he pops up 2 years later as though his entire string of so-called “proofs” had not been annihilated.

    So we have a wealth of evidence disproving the “Immigration Myth”:

    # Impeccable and unbiased genetic studies – Prof Ariela Oppenheim
    # Archaeological studies by top Israeli scientists – Prof Israel Finkelstein
    # The words of one of Israel’s leading scholars on religious history – Rabbi Dova Stein
    # The writings of Israel’s founding father – David Ben-Gurion
    # The (non-cheery picked) minutes of the meetings of the Commission for Palestine, the in-situ administration at the time

    And all top line fully referenced data.


    I rest my case

    ARAB IMMIGRATION MYTH BUSTED ----- YET AGAIN!!
     
  20. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Your presence here is the presence of a Muslim that write well (Probably Pakistan or as you mentioned S. Africa)

    No one in his right mind who is a stranger to this part of the World would do so much to gain a few points or put an extra feather on his hat... This runs deeper than that... The reasoning behind all that is the continuous defamation of a Nation... To drive a wedge between the Jews and their 'Patrimony' ...

    Again...your only purpose here is to 'Muddy the water'... My congratulations...
     
  21. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    I expected as much.

    You have no defence for your "proofs" so you need to find some or other strawman diversion so as to preserve some self-esteem .... some preservation of faith in your Myth-supported nationalist ideology. So you accuse me of characteristics about which you know zero, and cause you to interpret my insistence on respect for hard facts as an anti-Jewish trait. That is quite sad.

    But if that makes you feel good, HBendor .... I have no problem.

    But what is utterly clear from your complete lack of remaining ammunition, is that YOUR MYTH THAT THE PALESTINIANS ARE IMMIGRANTS HAS BEEN UTTERLY SHREDDED

    But fear not, good forum participants. In a year or less HB will be back posting the same trash that the Palestinians are foreign immigrants. His needs are just that predictable.
     
  22. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    My purpose is simply to present the facts, and to interpret them in the way that I see as being the most reasoned ... the most defensible.
    So what I am in fact doing is to show that the past 50 years of history has been depriving the Palestinians of THEIR patrimony
    I refuse to allow you to put a false spin on the intentions of someone who respects 1) the real facts .... 2) the value of logical reasoning .... and 3) their presentation without Mythification and spin.

    I cannot apologise if that trinity produces results that do not fit your agenda, HB. Sorry!!
     
  23. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Transjordan was excluded under the British Mandate for Palestine as it was recognized as being it's own political state.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Mandate

    Where the false claim exists is that any European Jew had any claim to any part of Palestine as none of these individuals could trace their personal family history to Palestine. Palestine belonged to the Palestinians in 1921 and a Palestinian was any person living in Palestine, regardless of religious or ethnic background, at that time. The European Jews had no legal status related to any part of Palestine. If anyone had a "claim" to Palestine based upon ancient history it would be the decendents of the Canannites that were not Jewish. This is a fact the "Zionists" seemed to ignore.
     
  24. PropagandaMachine

    PropagandaMachine New Member

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  25. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    While , Zionists leadership is/ are well aware of the history and recorded historical facts, it serves their purposes to conceal/distort it in order to serve their own ideological interests ,

    THey simply REWrite history have it rewritten by otherwise "unemployed/unemployable " so-called History Profesors "


    ,,,
     

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