Jordan Peterson book banned and university invite rescinded.

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by chris155au, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    It has been a bad few days for Jordan Peterson. The book ban not so bad as it is only one outlet in New Zealand, but he has also been deplatformed by the University of Cambridge.

    A university spokeswoman said: "[Cambridge] is an inclusive environment and we expect all our staff and visitors to uphold our principles. There is no place here for anyone who cannot." Wow, that is an INSANE statement! I guess every single professor their has the EXACT same views on absolutely everything! Some university that is! :roflol:

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/03...mosque-shooting-continues-selling-mein-kampf/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47656933
     
  2. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    @HonestJoe, @Jim Nash, @cerberus, would this be a normal attitude for English universities? "[Cambridge] is an inclusive environment and we expect all our staff and visitors to uphold our principles. There is no place here for anyone who cannot."
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well this isn't that surprising coming from an academic institution in the U.K.

    The thing is Peterson isn't even all that far to the Right, he's actually rather moderate really, but all that talk of personal responsibility and masculine roles is very offputting to some of these progressives. Not to mention his concepts of the demise of Western civilization, which is threatening and carries offensive implications to their worldview.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  4. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t see any major issue. This isn’t deplatforming as such, where he was just going to give a one-off independent talk. It was a visiting fellowship, essentially employment. Like all employers, the University will have a set of rules and principles which apply to all employees and Peterson is apparently on record stating he would actively refuse to follow at least one of them. If he had been on record saying he refuses to make reasonable accommodations for disabled students or refuses to teach anyone wearing a crucifix, I’m sure he’d have been denied to position in a similar way.
     
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was still employment discrimination.
    Which one would he refuse?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  6. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So all of their professors will have the same principles?
     
  7. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? UK employment discrimination laws don't apply to non-UK citizens.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’m not sure on what grounds he could claim discrimination given the reasons were due to his individual words and actions rather than any generic characteristic. You can certainly argue it was wrong but probably not that it was illegal.

    There is reference in this policy to discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Again, I’m not saying their decision was necessarily right but implying they have no concrete basis for it would be simply wrong; https://www.hr.admin.cam.ac.uk/policies-procedures/dignity-work-policy

    All members of staff (and probably students too) sign up to the same rules and policies as a condition of their employment. This is no different to pretty much every single major employer across the entire developed world. Whether those employees actually share the principles or they just follow the letter of the rules to keep the job is a different question.
     
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  9. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Being employed means having to follow social mores as stated by your employer?
    Whatever happened to the notion of free speech?

    In regard to the NZ book banning, I thought the below comments in the article was more than relevant:

    As I recall book burning - arguably a far more effective version of book suppression - was something the Nazis student union promulgated (HERE).

    Imo, Petersen is a very cool guy and I have his book. Cambridge University is just being stupid but hey, their loss.
     
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  10. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    His book wasn't banned. That's 100% nonsense. One store decided to stop selling it. Jordan Peterson is a professional victim, even as he rakes in millions and has a platform and audience that far far exceeds what he should have, considering the lack of depth of his content.

    Mein Kampf has historical value and should be read and understood so we don't keep making the same mistakes.

    Clean your room!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Jordan Peterson book banned and university invite rescinded.

    Opposing opinions are not welcome in Universities - the very places they should be included. I wonder if higher education is starting to put itself out of business.
     
  12. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    When you work for a private university the employees may not comment in public any opinion they have...
     
  13. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    The gag rule is not only in upper education it is in the majority of all businesses in the US.
     
  14. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    We also keep copies of Mein Kampf for insomniacs it is guaranteed to put them to sleep..
     
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  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about the NZ, but in the US, a business can fire you for your political views. Political views are not a protected class and they have their freedom of association as well. Your freedom of speech does not mean anyone owes you a job or has to associate with you if they don't want to.

    Your right to free speech does not entitle you to anyone else's platform or bullhorn. If someone pulls your mic, that's not a violation of your free speech. If it is their mic, they get to decide who uses it. You can still say what you want; they just don't have to help you promote it.

    I had a feeling we'd get to Godwin's Law on the first page. No, Nazis book burnings have nothing to do with an outlet deciding not to provide a platform for him. Please stop misusing the deaths of millions for a fallacious political argument. It trivializes actual human horrors.

    He's got some really good stuff and some really terrible stuff.

    And that, I think, is the rational response. No need for nonsense about misrepresenting freedom of speech or Nazi baiting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  16. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's boring and poorly written for sure. I think I made it 20 pages in and clearly Hitler was a dumbass who couldn't write worth ****.
     
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  17. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    It's the usual one line philosophy reiterated ad hominem...Same with the Communist Manifesto..I'd rather read boring old Cicero..
     
  18. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    Communist Manifesto has a lot more depth to it, in my opinion. Marx just never asked the really important question 'what can go wrong with these ideas?'
     
  19. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Many radicals seemed to be from wealthy families revolting against the wealth they don't have...
     
  20. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    Marx's personal biography also displays a lot of not being able to manage his own money at all and having to be constantly be bailed out of financial trouble by Friedrich Engles. It's easy to say 'each according to their needs' when your own 'needs' outstrip your ability or in his case desire to produce.

    On the other hand I do think there is some value in his philosophy. Some owners contribute ideas and capital to the creation of the work that they run. Others are just born wealthy and skim off the excess labor of their workers, the vampires that Marx referred to. (The irony being that modern conservatives then don't want any of that basically stolen money redistributed back to the people who produced it to start with.) So there are bits of truth and falsehood in the Communist Manifesto.

    Mein Kampf is just a poorly written trite from at meth using racist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  21. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you had a bad translation.
     
  22. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    German translates pretty easily into English. So I doubt it.
     
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  23. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    In the introduction, Herr Hitler does claim to be a better orator than writer. The first twenty pages seem to be autobiographical, so I don't understand how you can determine he is a "dumbass."
     
  24. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Western civilization is turning into a bunch of easily ruled pussycats
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  25. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    I'm not just reading it in a bubble, I have a historical context for his ideas and his person. He was a dumbass of this first degree. If I recall correctly in thw first 20 pages he also talks about how special Germanic people are from everyone else, the need to unify all germans (of course he doesn't even make the attempt with the Swiss Germans, I guess it doesn't count if they live on a mountain or something)

    That's a stupid idea, extra stupid today. We know there is nothing special about the dna of Germans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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