Justify Your Opinion of the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ericb760, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a lot of talk right now of us filthy, conniving, Progressives looking to subvert, or downright repeal, the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.

    While that is not a view that I share, I understand how this new crop of teenagers has got Wayne LaPierre and his merry band of followers panties in a bunch so badly that they assume that all of us on the Left want the same thing. Pro Tip: We don't. Obviously. Some of us do, of course. But, most of us simply want the slaughter of American lives to stop.

    As a firearm owning progressive, military veteran, and business owner, I fully support the Second Amendment, even while I support more stringent measures to keep the types of guns that I personally own out of the hands of people with more nefarious intent.

    I DO NOT own firearms because I think they are necessary to fight some abstract idea of a future tyrannical government. I own firearms for much more logical reasons. 1.) I live in an area that is prone to earthquakes. Soon or later, a big one is going to shake my peaceful world hard enough so that I might be on my own for several days, or even several weeks. People get weird when that happens and they start getting hungry, or too cold, or too hot. My firearms are a safety net against bad people doing bad things to the people and places I care about. 2.) As a business owner I occasionally transport large amounts of cash from one place to another. And, although I practice pretty good OPSEC, I have no guarantees that I am not being watched and evaluated as a target. 3.) Let's be honest. Range day is the one day I truly look forward to. It's just fun to shoot guns.

    Okay. I've shown you mine, now you show me yours. Why do you support the 2nd Amendment, and how do you justify it?
     
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  2. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the Founders were concerned about an overbearing central government. That's why we have the second amendment.

    Despite all of their checks and balances, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, etc., they were profoundly affected by the unrestricted power of the British government. They (especially Jefferson) saw occasional revolutions as necessary, healthy, and inevitable. I think they'd be surprised to see we've gone 242 years without a revolution (not counting the Civil War).
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I try to expose it but it stuns me that so few see what government has done to them and continues to do to them. It is as if so long as it is slowly done, bit by bit, the government gets away with doing it to all of us.

    Back in the day of our founders, they knew very well that government is always considered good until you wake up and learn it is not.

     
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  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Democrats exposing their true selves.

    Watch this short video.

     
  5. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    You're like my WW2 vet dad -- he had had enough of guns too and did not want any around our house. After he left for Korea however my mom got herself a Colt revolver in 22LR. She kept it with her forever after that.

    PTSD is real. If you hated the military experience you will hate guns like my dad did.

    My military experience was a piece of cake and I loved my M-14 and my 1911A1.

    So I got me a CZ 97B 45ACP afterwards and also a Ruger Mini 14 during as well. I love them both.

    Love my scoped bolt action Remington 700 which is essentially a fine tuned 1903 Springfield -- the WW1 rifle of the times. I hope to bag a bull or cow elk with it this year, if not with my bow and arrows.

    And I love my Mossberg Model 590 -- which is my anti bank robbers gun.

    I love my guns. They love me. They are my best friends.

    I love my high cap 30 round mags for the Ruger too.

    The genie is out of the bottle. There are so many AR's and AK's being used for robberies and home invasions and crimes that you need your own such armament as well.

    There are so many burglaries that you need to sleep with one of them. I sleep with the 45ACP under my pillow and the other guns locked up in a gun safe, with my wallet, and with my computer, and camera, and binos, and extra cash, and jewelry, etc.

    You @Ericb760 would be easy meat for a burglar or a home invader or a criminal on the streets.

    Your family is not safe with you protecting them !!! DO YOU GET THIS PART ???

    I am glad that 2A lets me keep and bear these firearms myself. In my state all long guns must be encased. Handguns may be worn concealed or openly however. But you cannot take the gun out of the case or out of the holster in public without a justifiable reason or else you are brandishing which is a major misdemeanor.

    To each his own.

    I get your PTSD.

    I don't have PTSD.

    My tour was peaceful. We went on a few floats in the Pacific and then liberated virgins of their virginity.

    Semper Fi -- if you are Marine.

    Fair winds and following seas -- if you are Navy.

    I don't know what the Army, Coasties, and Air Farce say to each other -- I was in the Naval service as a Jarhead.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  6. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    This is my rifle.

    My rifle is my best friend.

    It is my life.

    I must master my rifle as I must master my life.

    Without my rifle I am nothing.

    Without me my rifle is nothing.

    My rifle and I are the defenders of my Country.

    I must shoot my rifle straight and true.

    I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me.

    I must kill him before he kills me.

    I will.

    Before God and Country I take this oath.

    Amen.
     
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Guns are inanimate objects. They do not have feelings, They do not have friends. They are not people.
     
  8. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    My guns are to protect me and my family from any villain attempting us harm. There are many evil people walking among us. I don't think of my guns as being to protect me from my government. Just that simple.
     
  9. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    I don't have to justify it.

    Feel free to try to repeal it if it bothers you so much.
     
  10. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Simple, we have a fundamental right to life. Part of that right to life is a right to self defense. The most efficient form of device for self defense is a firearm. Without a right to bear arms, we would have no good device for self defense. Firearms allow 70 year old grandmas in wheelchairs a fighting chance against a 20 year old street thug.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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  11. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Did you even read his post? He said he owns firearms and his favorite day is Range Day when he shoots those firearms.
     
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  12. tomander7020

    tomander7020 Well-Known Member

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    The one thing that you wrote that I would criticize is your belief that you might need your guns to protect yourself against your fellow citizens. There are frequent earthquakes and other natural disasters in the United States, and the only time it might have been wise for citizens to have been armed during one of them was when police shot citizens dead in New Orleans who were doing noting more serious than trying to cross a bridge following Hurricane Katrina.

    As to carrying gun while transporting cash or enjoying target shooting, they seem to me to be legitimate reasons to be armed.
     
  13. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're just wrong. I live in So.Florida. We have hurricanes and power outages which attract looters. Not unusual to see neighbors in lawn chairs holding weapons guarding their houses.
     
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  14. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    I consider the fact that situations change. Today I may only need a firearm for home protection. But what will my grand kids need or even their grand kids? It would be short sighted to limit their options for protection today when I do not know how the future will be. Everything we do in our government is based on precedent, it is my the antiabortion crowd constantly tries to get laws passed to push the envelope. They hope they can build upon those laws and adopt their agenda. Gun laws are the same, what is sensible to some today can lead to places they never even considered. In the end why would I choose to endanger myself and my family purposely for nothing more then a sense of security today when tomorrow is unknown?
     
  15. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It is the Constitutional protection for our right to the best available means of exercising our right to self defense, absent which the anti-gun left would remove as much of said right as it could.
    I need not justify the exercise of any of my rights.
     
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  16. Medieval Man

    Medieval Man Well-Known Member

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    Interesting observation, thanks for sharing.

    From your comments about earthquakes, might I assume you're a fellow Californian? If so, you must certainly recognize you are quite the outlier amongst liberals/progressives/socialists in our state?

    Living here, I figured out long ago what the endgame was for leftists, at least in my state. It's not "common sense" gun laws, or restrictions on magazine capacity, or background checks; it's simply a wish to disarm a population that might not agree with ideologically.

    Historically, this whole "gun control" debate is relatively new, as even the most liberal of people supported the 2A in decades past. It wasn't until it became a wedge issue – for both sides, I'll admit – that we're seeing former Supreme Court justices and opinion columnists talking openly about repealing the 2A.

    Ironically, if you remove the six biggest Democratic Party-controlled cities from the equation, the U.S. has very little gun crime....
     
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  17. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I do live in Cali, and I am a progressive, but I do not march in lock-step with my party on a number of issues. Firearms policy being one, especially when we have liberal ******bags like Kevin "Ghost Gun" DeLeon writing California gun policy. And, you are wrong in that there are many of us who feel the same. Check out The Liberal Gun Club. They are extremely active in promoting the 2nd Amendment within the Liberal ranks.

    https://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  18. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  19. Medieval Man

    Medieval Man Well-Known Member

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    Excellent link, thanks. I honestly found it surprising that a group that includes 'Liberal' within its name would be against the assault weapons ban, magazine capacity limits and for national reciprocity for CCW.

    But I must point out how far outside the platform of the California Democratic Party you and you organization falll? I have many friends in California who consider themselves liberal, but are aghast at just how extreme the party has become in California.

    And since Obama's election, I see the party, nationwide, beginning to adopt more and more positions of the California leftists, which is quite worrisome.

    I firmly believe if those of us who support the 2A give one inch, the leftists will take a mile, as they have in California. Interesting, that we have had to discard our magazines that hold more than 10 rounds and must undergo a background for ammo, isn't it?

    I say this in somewhat in jest, but you realize you are no longer considered 'liberal' in California, right? The party didn't endorse our Senator Feinstein for reelection, which is a great measure of just how left California with its one-party rule) has become...

    Edit: guess who the CA DNC endorsed in place of Feinstein?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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  20. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are for "root cause mitigation" as opposed to confiscation. And, they are quite active, especially in the Northern half of the state.

    I honestly don't see it that way. Yes, the loudest, most vocal gun control advocates certainly get more press. But, regardless, firearms ownership is still a legal right, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

    This is a fallacy perpetuated by the NRA. 30 round magazines are legal to own, you just cannot buy them, import them, or trade them anymore. As far as background checks for ammo, that still hasn't been implemented, and it will take another couple of years for the idiots in Sacramento to figure out how to do that legally. There are a number of California based lawsuits challenging this ill-crafted law.

    I couldn't care less where someone else feels I fall on the political spectrum. I am a Liberal Progressive, as were most of the founders of this nation. Based on the, albeit anecdotal, conversations I've had at the range and local gun shops, my point of view is shared by a good portion of Cali shooters, especially Asians and African Americans, and other minorities including LGBT members.
     
  21. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    I am also a gun owner.

    But I don't get that right from the 2A. I am not part of a militia. It is legislated by the state and municipality in which I live and that's fine.
     
  22. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm a gun owner. I own guns from Remington, Ruger, Charles Daly, Browning, Winchester, Sig. etc. I can never have enough guns. Most gun owners are pretty much like me, we don't respect gun nuts much. When listing my guns to a friend, he said, "That's a lot of weapons." I told him, "I don't own weapons". Most gun nuts do. I have a few badges from the NRA and I enjoyed their shooting programs and ranges. When I started getting very nasty NRA letters attacking people for their political views, I sold my Mec 650 reloaderI told them to p... off. Keep your infested range.

    I have a loaded .22 magnum in my night stand but I don't think about it much. I guess once you serve in the Infantry guns loose their allure. I like guns because they're fun to shoot and are often fine artworks of metal and wood. There is nothing artistic about a military Weapon, They're made to break things and kill people. At this, they are quite good.

    I don't think much about the Second Amendment, it's not good for you. the gun nuts and the NRA dominate the energy and discussion. I do believe if the founding fathers could spend a few days in modern America re, guns, they would probably say, "WTF!" I don't go into gun stores because they look like military arsenals. They haven't had pictures of father, son, gun, and dog in an autumn cornfield for a generation.

    Most of the posts I see here about those awful liberals and "their" awful government are from posters that are (whether they know it or not) anarchists. One poster told me that our "well regulated militia" was an armed public meant to serve as our last line of defense against an invading power. While I don't wholeheartedly endorse that view it is quite thoughtful and makes infinitely more sense than the hysteria that comes off the keyboards of the gun nuts.

    END OF RANT
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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  23. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I believe it applies to the Militia and the State Defense Forces which are State run Militias, while if Congress ever call forth the people to fight they can declare all armed men and women 17 to 45 in a basic uniform a member of the armed forces as part of the Militia and hand out cards or papers backing that or air drop them to resistance forces to invoke Geneva Conventions protections. However the 9th Amendment offers the right as a man or woman under the law the right to have a 'suitable weapon' for hunting for food and self-defense that would be not a weapon suitable for Militia duty as in a weapon of modern warfare but a handgun, shotgun or bolt action rifle or rifle with a limited size clip would be no issue for me but a AK-47 wouldn't.

    Congressional powers are pretty clear Congress has the right to deal with and arm and supply a Militia and assign them, combined with the 2nd Amendment, the 9th Amendment and the Congressional Enumerated Powers would generally ,in my view, support this position.
     
  24. Medieval Man

    Medieval Man Well-Known Member

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    Here's the latest on SB 1446 as of last month:

    California’s ban on the possession of high-capacity gun magazines passes constitutional muster, a federal judge ruled Wednesday, though he gave the gun owners a fourth opportunity to make their case.

    While lawmakers in 1999 prohibited the sale, manufacture or importation of high-capacity ammunition magazines – but let those who owned them before that point keep them – SB 1446 forced gunowners with “grandfathered” magazines to turn them in for destruction by July 1, 2017, or face legal consequences.

    In November 2016, voters also passed the corresponding Proposition 63, which requires anyone who owns a large-capacity magazine to do one of three things: move it out of state, sell it to a licensed firearms dealer, or surrender it to a law enforcement agency to be destroyed.


    https://www.courthousenews.com/californias-ban-on-gun-magazines-survives-challenge/

    I have a good friend you can send your mags to when the state outlaws them and forces you to get rid of them.

    I truly hope you don't ever have a child visit your home, as you are in violation of the law if you do per 25105 PC.

    Regarding the ammo laws, I believe it has been worked out by the idiots in Sac; Prop 63 was pretty clear in requiring a permit to purchase ammo as well as purchasing limits.

    Regardless of what you call yourself, the leftist, one party rule in California will eventually force you to decide if you wish to remain a mostly disarmed law abiding citizen or a gun-totin outlaw...
     
  25. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am drafting plans to move out of state as we speak. Wages are stagnant, and home prices are, again, astronomical. So, it's not if, it's when the bubble bursts again, I have decided to be in a state that will be less affected than California. It will, however, take me the better part of this year to disentangle myself financially from this state.

    EDIT: SB 1446 has been blocked from implementation:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...gh-capacity-magazine-ban-but-fight-looms.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
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