Kansas Versus Minnesota Economies

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Trumanp, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. Trumanp

    Trumanp Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, noticed some comments recently how these two states have gone in completely different directions on taxation, the ACA, Education Spending, Minimum Wages, etc...

    Pretty much how Minnesota has gone the complete opposite of Kansas when it comes to policy, led by no other than a Billionaire who is involved with the Target Department Store chain. He inherited a bad economy from Pawlenty, that republican sweetheart who ran up a 6+ billion dollar deficit, and in the two terms Pawlenty was Governor only managed to create about 6000 jobs.

    Dayton comes in, and in 1 term to date, raised income taxes, raised the minimum wage and joined the ACA medicaid expansion. What did this end up doing to Minnesota? 150,000+ new jobs, a balanced budget that is running a surplus that he intends to pump back into education and many other solid economic indicators.

    What do Minnesota and Kansas have in common? Both are landlocked states, can't take advantage of shipping oil like Texas or California can to hide poor economic performance. In many ways if you had to have a comparison experiment on two similar states, these two are good ones.

    And the end results are that cutting taxes on the rich, cutting government spending, cutting regulation, etc... all the tenets of the Conservative movement do not work. Have not worked. And will not work. Supply side, trickle down, what ever you want to call it are epic failures and America needs to reverse course immediately and start taxing the well off, in some cases overly well off. They are not meeting their obligations to the country that allowed them to be prosperous, and it's time they started contributing their fair share.

    References:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibson/mark-dayton-minnesota-economy_b_6737786.html
    http://www.mnpact.org/sblog/blog.php?id=4294
     
    Mr_Truth and (deleted member) like this.
  2. YouLie

    YouLie Well-Known Member

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    "And the end results are that cutting taxes on the rich, cutting government spending, cutting regulation, etc... all the tenets of the Conservative movement do not work."

    This is laughable to me. Circumstances change. There's time for austerity and time for investment. If you look at the majority of US Uncut's complaints, it's not that corporations are acting illegally, with exceptions such as HSBC that launders money for drug cartels and terrorists. Their complaint is that corporations are acting legally. A tax loophole is not tax evasion. They even admit this, but say they go after the corporations instead of lawmakers, because they believe the corporations to be ultimately responsible for the "loopholes" lawmakers give them. When you look at their tactics (they basically started Occupy), all of the sudden the rule of law becomes irrelevant. Why? Because the silver pony tailed professor told them they have a moral authority for "civil disobedience." In summary, US Uncut, similar to most liberal movements, cannot win elections and policy making political battles, so they cater to the mind-numbed robots. The kind of folks that pump their fist and shout, "hell yeah!" when they see someone on campus holding a sign that reads "corporations kill babies."
     
  3. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem here is too quick attribution of credit/blame to governors for what happens when they sit in a chair. The point being that if two states adopted the exact same laws and policies, they'd still have divergent economic growth patterns, different budget deficits or surpluses, etc.

    And the parameters you set seem to be set just to exclude other comparisons that you knew were coming - like ND, Texas, etc. But we might just as easily compare blue Minnesota to red Nebraska, where the two are basically the same.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ranked-the-50-us-state-economies-2014-8#1-north-dakota-50

    It's also worth noting that in Minnesota the House is controlled by Republicans. We should also note that Dayton only won 50.07% in 2014, and in 2010 he only won thanks to a split GOP. The GOP was in the election, of course, but a Republican also broke with the party to run as a third party candidate, and pulled double digits - enough to draw enough red votes to allow Dayton to win.

    And, seeing as you do wish to focus on MN v. KS, a common comparison desired by liberals who bemoan KS policies, KS is still ranked #25 economically, while MN is #15.

    It sounds like you had your conclusion and were just looking for data which confirmed it. Unfortunately, there are a series of problems with your data that actually challenges it.
     
  4. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    faced with these facts the GOP will call you a Muslim.
     
  5. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    Because Kansas and Minnesota are almost alike in every single way, these comparisons are valid.
     
  6. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    The "Kansas problem" will end up forcing liberals to eat crow. Since Kansas decided to operate within its budget, liberals have been decrying how horrible it is - how bad for education it is - yada, yada, yada.

    They point to comparisons that other states have risen more quickly - economically - than Kansas. The reality, which you will never hear from a liberal, is that Kansas never sunk as low during the recession as did those other states, hence they were already in better shape.

    I love watching the liberals do their mental cartwheels. It's hoot. It really is.
     
  7. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    There is help. Meds can do wonders.
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is certainly false. Ever been to Duluth? One of the busiest inland harbors in the United States and locks and other improvements enable Mississippi River barge traffic to pass around the Falls of St. Anthony at Minneapolis.

    Also, the economies are completely different as far as agriculture and manufacturing, for instance, iron ore is a major economic factor in Minnesota.
     
  9. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I can see you have never been to the mid-west. Please tell me how they are alike in almost every single way.
     
  10. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I have lived in Kansas for over a decade and have been on the back roads of every midwest state including Minnesota. Let me help you out here:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

    Kansas has been shedding population since the invention of the internal combustion engine, relative to other states. Kansas may have one of the harshest climates year round of any other state. Farm jobs have been disappearing with every single farming innovation. Kansas was going to have serious economic and government funding troubles no matter what. Governor Brownback's economic policies should always be compared to Kansas, and Kansas alone, prior to his enacting reforms which became imperative during the Obama economy. And looking at the Brownback experiment at this moment is also pretty foolish. The Brownback reforms are meant to improve the Kansas economic outlook ten years down the road and it was always thought that in the short term there would be difficulties. One could basically say evaluations at this moment in time are akin to planting milo in the morning and kvetching about the crop in the afternoon. Comparing Kansas to Minnesota in any way shape or form is the height of ignorance.
     
  11. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I could not read into your sarcasm. But people on the coast are usually very ignorant about the Midwest.
     
  12. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    Fair enough. And it is true, if you haven't spent a couple years in the Midwest, then you really know very little about it. You would never know how it seems like the whole earth is against you and you would never know how courteous, friendly, wonderful, and caring the people are.
     
  13. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    We already know that the left-Complex is terrified of Kansas policy because it hits the Complex right in its gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-lawyer-MSM wallet and other states could follow suit, hence all the deluge of fallacious comparisons and cherry-picks such as contained in the OP. Tell us something new and source it other than from leftist blogs and op-eds, else it's just more of the same union label claptrap we have seen in thread after thread here.

    Four of the five fastest growing states in the country are "red" and governed by more conservative Complex spending policies. In light of that broader, necessary context, whatever happens in Kansas is not dispositive of much.
     
  14. Trumanp

    Trumanp Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Grasping for straws a bit aren't we?

    Minnesota is so far up the Mississippi river that you can't really count that as a port, it helps, but no more or less than the Missouri river, which empties into the Mississippi and is maintained by the government for the purpose of a water route from none other than Kansas City.

    Want to try that again?

    Oh, and by the way Kansas has also had a relatively decent Petroleum business, along with coal, zinc and other natural resources.

    The two are more alike than you want to admit, because Brownback and the Republicans of that state are complete tools of the trickle down falsehoods.

     
  15. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  16. PaulDennis

    PaulDennis New Member

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    Economic data is always skewed in ag states.
     
  17. YouLie

    YouLie Well-Known Member

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    Apples vs. Oranges taste test.
     
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Duluth isn't on the Mississippi.

    Want to try that again?
     

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