Kavanaugh vs Dr. Ford Testimony. The lies...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    You aren't very good at this.

    Us Constitution
    Article 2



    Aren't you glad you are here to compliment you.

    I'm really not sure where you get arrogance. The lessons I'm teaching you I learned in elementary school.

    It probably looks complicated to you, but it really isn't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  2. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter. The House's power to impeach is plenary. Just like POTUS pardon power.

    That means there is no check or balance. That means the House can impeach Trump for having a bad combover and there is no appealing it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh... My... God!!!

    Ok. So you're saying that the Constitution doesn't need to specify in which instances POTUS can fire the FBI director, but it does need to specify every instance in which POTUS cannot fire the FBI Director. I mean, given that that is what you were demanding from me: a quote from the Constitution stating when he can't fire him.

    Sounds pretty much like you believe it's a God-given power. I'm sure every self-proclaimed "originalist" in the forum will be going for your throat as soon as they read this.

    Your whole argument is beyond absurd, of course. But here is yet another problem you'll have (besides fighting off libertarians): Fact is that the Constitution does specify in which instances the President using this power could lead to impeachment. And it's also in Article 2. You just didn't read far down enough. Because it's on Section 4. Quoting somebody I know "Can you find it or do you want me to post it for you?" If you do want me to post it for you, let me know because I will laugh my ass off.

    I will explain to you what it says. Pay attention: The instances in which President firing the FBI director would lead to impeachment are: If firing him is an act of treason. If he is firing him because he was bribed to do it. Or, in a broader sense, if he fires him to commit a high crime or misdemeanor. Like... I don't know.... obstruction of justice, for example (just an example).

    There is no exception to ... what??? You stated Article 2, Session 1 doesn't specify what because "it doesn't need to". And that Trump just has this... god-given power to fire Comey.

    This is the most ridiculous argument you have written yet.
     
  4. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    You aren't thinking this through.

    Yes, you do have to find in the Constitution exceptions to specified powers to make your case. Because that's the way the Constitution works

    Absurd would be saying a POTUS only had powers when there was no disagreement from his opposition.

    Imagine if Obama could have been told his power to sign the Obamacare law was suspended because he lied to get it passed. Or his CIC power to surrender Iraq to ISIS was suspended because his military advisors unanimously disagreed.

    The powers are clearly laid out. What you are suggesting is that the powers can be quashed under unspecified conditions. You wouldn't like that bucket of worms opened it a Democrat were POTUS.

    There is one check on a POTUS using his Constitutional powers to the detriment of the country. Impeachment. Someone made the example of an article of impeachment drafted on Nixon for a pardon. I'm not familiar with that case, but I guarantee the pardon would not have been undone.

    And its not a God-given power. Its a Constitutional power that every POTUS has had.
     
  5. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Oh... BTW...

    I never said the House couldn't impeach Trump. I've said multiple times the House has Plenary power to impeach.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is nonsense at so many levels.

    You haven't even said what "power" you are referring to. Much less quote where the Constitution grants that power.

    Which BTW, just in case any rational reader sees this, is a ridiculous demand. But since you demanded that I show you where in the Constitution it's restricted, the least you can do is quote where in the Constitution it's granted.

    What the sh... hell does lying have to do with it? If Obama signed Obamacare because he was bribed, or if it were an act of treason, or if he were committing abuse of power... or any other high crime or misdemeanor, he would and should be impeached!!!!

    "Lying" is not a high crime or a misdemeanor! Don't tell me you don't even know what "high crimes and misdemeanors" means. Anybody can lie. But only the President of the United States can fire the FBI Director for the purpose of obstructing an investigation about acts in which he was involved.

    You are completely lost. Scratch that.... you're not lost. You're just desperate.

    Again I leave the rest so as not to be accused of taking you out of context. But it's completely useless. You haven't even stated what power you are referring to. Or quoted it from the Constitution (your requirement... not mine)

     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Uff! That's a relief! Everybody was on the edge of their seats waiting to know if you believed that the House had the power to impeach!

    Nancy! It's a go. We've been authorized!
     
  8. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Lying about legislation that robbed millions of Americans of their health plans and or Doctors easily falls under "misdemeanor". But that's irrelevant.

    Impeachment isn't the issue either. The House can impeach any time they want, for anything they want.

    Read Article 2. It explains Presidential Powers.

    How were you thinking Presidential powers have been defined for the last 2 centuries? A vote? A consensus of journalists? A Ouija Board?

    No.. It's in the Constitution. That's where all 3 Branches' powers are defined.

    The Constitution was purposely written in plain language that common folk could understand.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  9. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    You're trying too hard to be a smartie-pants.

    In stead you should be reading the Constitution.
     
  10. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    One more time: quote the part where it grants... whatever power you say is "stripped"

    This time I delete the rest because you keep using excuses to not respond.
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No more B.S. Answer the question.
     
  12. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    As i quoted, the power to execute the defined powers of the office.

    Unless i misspoke (and i don't think i did) I said tried to strip.

    Obviously the corrupt Comey was fired.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  13. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Which of the "defined powers of the office"?

    Stop delaying!

    Quote from the Constitution.
     
  14. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    I quoted it earlier and you responded to it.

    Do I need to read it to you?
     
  15. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Constitution of United States of America 1789
    Article 2
    Section 1

    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:


    Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representatives from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall choose from them by Ballot the Vice-President.

    The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

    The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

    Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:-"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


    Thus endith the lesson
     
  16. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems your confusion stems from your inability to comprehend that while the Constitution may grant a prez the authority to pardon anyone he chooses, such an act may nonetheless subsequently be deemed a crime.

    “The fact that a person can be fired for any reason or pardoned for any reason does not mean that in certain circumstances the reason might not constitute obstruction of justice.”

    https://www.americanprogress.org/is...tructing-justice-pardons-impeachable-offense/
     
  17. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Before you get your smarty pants on you need to know what you're talking about.

    1. Impeachment doesn't require a crime.
    2. American Progress? Hahahahaha....
    3. If the Constitution authorizes an action, then that action by definition of legal.

    Look up "legal" sometime and see what it says.
     
    Polydectes and Dayton3 like this.
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What if Trump had instead said, "I fired Comey in a bid to obstruct justice?" Would that have been no more incriminating than "this Russiarrr thing..., with Trump and Russia....?"
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Did I express some confusion over the relationship of these two words?
     
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  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes!!!!! Quote it! Why do you need to ask? Just quote it. Quote only the part where the Constitution grants the "power" you claim is being "restricted".
     
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    It would incriminate him in being mentally ill. Because the phrase doesn't make sense.
     
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    But "this Russiarrr thing..., with Trump and Russia" DOES make sense?
     
  23. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    I printed it out on a post. Which part confused you?

    I didn't say they restricted it... For the umpteenth time I said they attempted to restrict it. You seem to be unable or unwilling to grasp this distinction... I'm not sure which, can you clear that up for us?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  24. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

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    Actually, you seem unable to comprehend the point that using a Constitutional Power as prescribed in the Constitution, by definition is not a criminal offense.

    Could Obama be prosecuted for the times that he used his Constitutional Powers? No? You got that one right.....
     
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Turns out all the accusers lied...oops
     

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