Kushner's "deal of the century" falls flat on it's face

Discussion in 'United States' started by EarthSky, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Ever since the Trump administration started bumbling around in the Israel/Palestine conflict it was clear that there was not even a pretense of fairness or honesty in their actions. Whether moving the US embassy to Jerusalem or cutting off aid funding to Palestinian refugees, it is clear that the Trump administration is doing everything it can to take Israel's side and render a two-state solution even more impossible than it was before Trump and his family began stirring up the hornet's nest in the Middle East.

    The highlights of the plan are as empty of detail and vacuous as almost anything that come out of the Trump administration and as ignorant of history and context of the struggle as only a uninformed, malignant neophyte like Kushner could make it.

    the basics of the plan are to offer the Palestinians some vague promise of billions of dollars in exchange for submitting to Israeli rule over occupied territories and giving up all sovereignty over lands they claim as their own including East Jerusalem and large parts of the West Bank.

    There is not even an attempt to address issues that are most important to Palestinians and which have scuttled previous peace plans such as "right of return" or a viable Palestinian state.

    Tellingly, neither Israeli's not Palestinians were interested enough to send representatives to Kushner's "workshop" on Middle East peace showing that the inane, empty proposals of wealth and prosperity in turn for capitulation of land and sovereignty was taken seriously by none of the interested parties.

    "The lack of a political solution, which Washington has said would be unveiled later, prompted rejection not only from Palestinians but also in Arab countries with which Israel would seek normal relations.

    From Sudan to Kuwait, commentators and ordinary citizens denounced Kushner's proposals in strikingly similar terms: "colossal waste of time," "non-starter," "dead on arrival."

    Egyptian liberal and leftist parties slammed the workshop as an attempt to "consecrate and legitimise" occupation of Arab land and said in a joint statement that any Arab participation would be "beyond the limits of normalisation" with Israel.

    While the precise outline of the political plan has been shrouded in secrecy, officials briefed on it say Kushner has jettisoned the two-state solution - the long-standing worldwide formula that envisages an independent Palestinian state
    alongside Israel in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza."


    https://www.france24.com/en/2019062...ouse-kushner-50-billion-trump-arab-economic-p

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ddle-east-deal-seeming-further-away-than-ever

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/06/24/trump-peace-plan-middle-east-227209
     
  2. patentlymn

    patentlymn Active Member

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    Bill Clinton did his best on this issue long ago.
    Even he could not pull it off. He thought he came close.
    The Muslms want to push the Jews into the sea. Nothing less will do.
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clinton's deal was not what American's heard. But are you suggesting this is a good deal for the Palestinians?

    and a couple of other things, this is not about 'the Jews' it is about Palestine and Israel and secondly the only one of the two who has thrown anyone into the sea is the Israelis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  4. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Beggars can’t be choosers, alexa. Palestinians should have taken any deal that came their way. Any deal. Have you noticed, dels are getting worse for them and money getting less? That’s the trend.
     
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  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We shall see when your country fails and the world is returned to International Law and reality.
     
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  6. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which laws?
     
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  7. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Palestinians" (formerly Turkish Arabs in the state called "Palestine" by the British) rejected
    the Oslo Accords. They rejected good offers from Clinton and Obama. They rejected the Peres
    offer too. These offers would have given Palestinians 97% of the West Bank and Gaza as a
    state, and East Jerusalem as their capital. They could have entered into long term agreements
    that would have given them rail and air access, industrial parks, investments and the like.
    To this day some 350,000 Palestinians go to Israel for medical support and visitations. It's sad
    their leaders seek to impoverish their people with corruption and violence.
     
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  8. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    America supports Israel and had since 1947
     
  9. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not quite.
    America withdrew support for the partition because it 'wasn't working'
    and America did not support Israel with arms until AFTER two major wars.
    Today, yes... bit time. And about time.
     
  10. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    America fails? Never; we shall stay strong and prosper forever.

    Palestine? There's no such country to begin with.
     
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  11. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which reality? :lol:
     
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  12. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    The US was the first nation to reconize Israeli statehood
     
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The Jews demand that their war crimes must be paying off in an incredible way.
    Ethnically cleansed +700.000 people robbed them from everything they owned -> repercussion must be zero.
    Ethnically cleansing across their border so their Jews can thieve there too on the best places-> repercussion must be 20%
    Draining their water from under their feet across the border -> must keep on doing that and controlled by us while being "independent".
    IDF being able to drive all over occupied territories -> you can be "independent" with our army still in your lands, and you may not have an army for your own protection against us.

    The insanity that the Jews and Americans think this is a plan that is acceptable.
    To than blame the Muslims it's their fault that this is not acceptable.
     
  14. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Dude. Israel is the best friend of the US. And when the US makes a deal, the deal will be in total favor of Israel and it's Jews. All them deals they made, are a total joke. A total joke. The Jews dictate the deal, and in all of them, it is so that the IDF still marches around Palestine. You can't be an independent nation when a hostile army still gets to be in your country, champ.

    Abbas made a plan. You know how Israel reacted? They kept the taxes they collected in the WB to crash the government.
     
  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, being the Devil's Advocate...
    Britain pandered to Arab sentiment - that's why she handed over to the Arabs her bases and
    armaments upon leaving.
    France cancelled further arms sales after the Six Day War.
    America refused to sell arms to the "Middle East" and reversed its decision on granting Israel
    partition as it was "unworkable."
    Only Stalin both supported the nation of Israel and supplied it arms - via the Czechoslovakians.
    US support is recent (post 1967) - and there's no guarantee it will continue. Israel understands that.
    Something similar is happening with Russia and Syria.
     
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  16. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When the Mullahs called upon the Arabs to abandon their villages and not live for one minute under
    Israeli rule - despite pleas from Israel that they stay - that's not "ethnic cleansing."
    Ethnic cleansing is where half a million Jews are driven out of Arab countries and become refugees
    in Israel. No talk about them, or their Right of Return.
     
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  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Zionistic fake news

    A report from the military intelligence SHAI of the Haganah entitled "The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948," dated 30 June 1948, affirms that:
    At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations. To this figure, the report's compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration." A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

    Do note. This is the Israeli version. The real figure is probably way lower than that.

    Never happened. Countries on the Arab peninsula had laws that banned Jews from leaving, but they left anyways. And in countries like Algeria, the Jews accepted French citizenship and fought against Arabs to make them 2nd class citizens in their own country under their thug colonial rule. They lost, and than went home to their home country, France,.. with their French citizenship.
     
  18. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You are responding to my comment that all the "peace" plans the Jews and Americans came up with. And your responds makes absolute no sense.
     
  19. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re Jewish immigration. It did happen. There were Jews in Iraq who were driven out of a nation
    they had been in for longer than the Arabs. Jews were in Babylon about 2,600 years ago. Arabs
    turned up much later. No Jewish Rabbi urged Jews to leave - they were forced out at gunpoint.
    Let me repeat, about 500,000 Jews were driven out of Middle East nations after 1948.

    but here's the funny thing --- they now live in what were Palestinian towns. Towns mostly vacated by
    Arabs who sought to internationalize the conflict. Those Arabs who chose to stay are some of the
    better off Palestinians.
    And the nations that stopped selling arms --- they forced Israel to become an arms manufacturer.
    It's a good industry.
    And those who refused to negotiate (think Syria) essentially forced Israel to hold onto their land
    (think Golan.)
    Says in the bible that those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed.
     
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  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Fake.
    Iraq was a country who banned Jews from leaving. It was legally not possible. They left anyways. And under international pressure, the Iraqi's dropped the law. As a consequence of that, the Israeli's send in planes to get them. Iraq even caught a bunch of Jews bombing fellow Jews to scare them away of Iraq. They did that in Egypt too. That's no ethnic cleansing.

    So what. Most Jews in Israel are immigrants. That or 2nd generation immigrants. Nobody likes freaking immigrants. Go ask Trump!

    I just sourced that according to Jewish Israel, most Arabs were driven out by the Jews.
     
  21. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, look at the situation in Palestine today and tell me who is pushing who into the sea? Palestinian anger and hatred of Israel does not exist in a vacuum.
     
  22. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    I would say the US enables Israel to be more accurate.
     
  23. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is the prevailing narrative which is propagated by Israel and it's defenders. Of course, it fails to take into account the take it or leave it nature of the negotiations or what the Palestinians were being forced to give up in the terms of the agreement.

    First of all the territory is not Israel's to swap under UN resolution 242. It is illegally occupied territory - in other words, Palestinian territory to begin with.

    Also your "good" offers left Israeli settlements largely intact along with the service roads that bisected Palestinian territory and cut off one Arab community from another leaving Israel settlements as dominant features of the land with control over resources, water-rights and transportation with the ability to impose it's own military through Palestinian land at any time. What it really meant was the Palestinians would have a series of islands within their own state that would have been cut off and bisected in every direction by Israeli settlements and their service and military roads.

    They also had to give up all future claims over East Jerusalem and forget about any "right of return" for 700,000 refugees forced out during the Israeli ethnic cleansing before the '48 creation of the state of Israel was even dry.

    Right of Return was mandated by UN resolution 194 and East Jerusalem was always to be a part of any 2 state agreement. Israel refused to budge on either and no Palestinian leader could have survived agreeing to such one-sided and egregious terms even a leader as corrupt and unworthy as Arafat.

    The Peace process begun under Clinton then effectively died on the vine when Netanyahu and Likud came to power as Clinton has stated:

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/09/22/bill-clinton-netanyahu-killed-the-peace-process/
     
  24. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Follow this in the years to come. It won't be headlines in the Western media I am sure. And certainly not mentioned
    in Arab media. It is going to be an important part of any regional Jewish-Arab peace agreement.

    Israel said set to seek $250b compensation for Jews forced out of Arab countries
    After 18 months of research, first claims being finalized for reported $35b from Tunisia, $15b from Libya,
    for assets Jews left behind when kicked out after establishment of Israel....
    Israel is planning to seek some $250 billion in compensation seven Arab and Muslim countries for property
    left behind by Jews who were forced to flee their homes in 1948 when Israel was established.

    Speaking Saturday on Hadashot News, Social Equality Minister Gila Gamliel said, “The time has come to
    correct the historic injustice” against the Jews from Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Yemen and
    Iran – countries from which Jews were expelled.
    JPost.com
     
  25. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... the Israeli Jews paid the Iranian Jews to leave. And to think they will file a bill now that some got "ethnically cleansed" that way. What a load of crap.

    For 30.000 pounds a family, houses, jobs... that's how far the Israeli Jews tried to go with asking to commit treason.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019

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