Land Reclamation and Climate Change

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Scholar, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. Scholar

    Scholar New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I find it hard to believe climate change doesn't exist when we experience rising sea levels taking our land and wrecking havoc on coastal populations. Can our national leaders, at least agree on one thing? Waste, pollution, and the extraction of resources has devastating effects on the environment? Or must we continue basking in our false bliss that we can do whatever we want to our planet without repercussion?

    :hippie: Peace and love
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  2. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Look to the bright side, The earth is greening up with the little increase in co2 levels, and we will be able to grow food farther north on really fertile lands. There is even a little proof that the deserts are shrinking and the edges are starting to get green again.

    Plus, all of that land being claim by rising sea levels will dry out with the next ice age. Of course the US will be under a sheet of ice perhaps a couple miles thick, but lets stop the warming so it can cool back down.

    The scientist freeman dyson, or is it dyson freeman, says we could handle this co2 by simple land management, for plants pull co2 from the air, so no need to get hysterical. But there isn't as much money to be made in land management, so we need to go after fossil fuels instead and wreck economies that feed humanity. And if you used land management to handle the co2, you couldn't be so hysterical, and some of us demand the hysterics. It gives us a purpose in life.
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Best way to get the seas to go back down is another glacial period. Yeah, that would be great. Hey, during an interglacial it gets warm enough to melt the ice. Go figure.
     
  4. X-ray Spex

    X-ray Spex Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Coastlines are a dynamic process, with erosion, deposition, and subsidence rearranging them constantly. They are not static, unchanging entities. Only science deniers cannot see this.

    Yes, humans also play a role. But you can't realistically expect that nothing is going to change, that the earth as it is will be constant and never change. People are part of nature too...
     
  5. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    11,892
    Likes Received:
    2,768
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The sea level has been rising since the last ice age ended and it will continue to rise until we start towards the next ice age. Why can't you get that?
     
  6. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Planting Kudzu is another good soil conservator in areas prone to landslides and mudslides...
    :cool:
    UN: Lentils, Chickpeas Can Help Reverse Dangerous Trend of Soil Erosion
    December 06, 2016 — Planting more lentils, chickpeas and other pulses will improve the health of the world's soils that have reached critical levels, threatening to worsen hunger and poverty levels, the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) said on Monday.
     
  7. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Please tell me HOW the earth is greening from increased CO2. Does the formula for photosynthesis change? And why do CO2 levels keep rising in the atmosphere if the deserts are doing such a great job of "greening"?
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only constant in climate is change. Why are people so surprise that ice melts during an inter-glacial. There used to be mile thick ice over NY.

    - - - Updated - - -

    CO2 is plant food.
     
  9. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and at least 16 other elements are needed for plant growth. But the one thing plants can not live without is water.
     
    Bowerbird likes this.
  10. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    More CO2 decreases plant stomata making them require less water. A warming planet means more precipitation. This is a water planet, what makes you think there is not enough water?

    - - - Updated - - -

    A cartoonists alarmist blog as an experiment in communication is not a great place to find unbiased reporting.
     
  12. Befuddled Alien

    Befuddled Alien Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Address what was said ... not who said it. Or to quote someone you will think is very wise ...

     
  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem with (un)SkepticalScience is misdirection. For instance they do not even present how the plant actually reacts to increased CO2 with reduced stomata which makes the plant require less water. You will notice it is full of 'opinion' and designed to push 'alarmism'. That is not science but advocacy.

    According to NASA, the earth is greening. The Sahel is greening. Live with it.

    I could write for (un)SkepticalScience, "Warming will make everything scawy, scawy bad."
     
  14. Befuddled Alien

    Befuddled Alien Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I totally agree with Hoosier8 here ... some people just don't get what a logical fallacy is.
     
  15. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The chemical formula for photosynthesis does not change. So it takes just as much water to create the same amount of glucose in a plant. And it also takes just as much water to make plant tissue. I am calling BS on this one.
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course you call BS on what you don't understand and instead of actually having any curiosity and investigate it, you simply shut it out of your mind because it does not fit your bias. The science of plant stomatal transpiration is a study with many undefined outcomes mainly because it is not fully understood how it works in the chaotic non-linear climate. Unfortunately this 'understanding' covers almost all of climate science but the AGW advocates don't want you to know this and the dumb media is just too, well, dumb and dumbed down to give you all the information you would need to make an intelligent decision on your own.

    That means you need to actually read what is out there, not take your marching orders from politics or media hype or advocacy websites like (un)SkepticalScience.

    Transpiration - Summary

    snip...

     
  17. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    28,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can't recall how many times I've had this conversation with the AGW faithful. They invariably cannot process the information, so it sounds like some irrational voodoo for them. Likely, they simply won't accept motion without inputs either, but observable demonstrations of it exist, none the less.

    I blame poor public education. Purposeful us of education to indoctrinate instead of educating is likely the worst social offense of liberalism and clearly, we can see it's lasting effectiveness on so many.
     
  18. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Like I have said before , you try to grow plants with increased CO2 and I will use water. We will see who succeeds. As a plant grows it needs more water. So water is what the deserts need...not more CO2.
     
  19. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    28,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The correct analogy is a conventional combustion engine. It requires both fuel and air. So do plants. They require fuel provided by minerals and water, as well as a catalyst provided by CO2. If we increase the CO2, just as if we increase the amount of air in a combustion engine, we require less fuel, in this case water for plants. This is observable. It isn't theoretical. We can demonstrate this relationship. So, yes, more CO2 allows plants to grow with less water. Which translates into greater coverage. Remember the important part here. No water is just as bad as no CO2. Without either, there are no plants. Thinking that you need to starve plants, however, isn't the answer.
     
  20. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  21. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And this:

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/know...atmospheric-concentrations-of-carbon-13254108
     
  22. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The main contributions to plant growth are water and soil biology. It starts with the soil. To think an increase in CO2 is going to solve the problem of desertification and increase usible land is a pipe dream. Even if plants use less water they will grow. As a plant grows it will need more water. So during the lifetime of the plant the water needs are reduced by not more than 10%. And this only includes some plants. The solution to greening deserts is in the soil and land management and not an increase in CO2. Our soils are a degraded resource and this is the issue that needs to be addressed.
     
    The Bear likes this.
  23. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Upside to climate change...
    [​IMG]
    Researchers: Climate Change May Turn Africa's Arid Sahel Green
    July 05, 2017 — One of Africa's driest regions — the Sahel — could turn greener if the planet warms more than 2 degrees Celsius and triggers more frequent heavy rainfall, scientists said on Wednesday.
     
    drluggit likes this.
  24. Llewellyn Moss

    Llewellyn Moss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    681
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Earth...a living entity !

     
  25. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    2,813
    Likes Received:
    1,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your post is very naive and uneducated:

    http://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/sea-level-rise/

    Core samples, tide gauge readings, and, most recently, satellite measurements tell us that over the past century, the Global Mean Sea Level (GMSL) has risen by 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). However, the annual rate of rise over the past 20 years has been 0.13 inches (3.2 millimeters) a year, roughly twice the average speed of the preceding 80 years.

    Over the past century, the burning of fossil fuels and other human and natural activities has released enormous amounts of heat-trapping gases into the atmosphere. These emissions have caused the Earth's surface temperature to rise, and the oceans absorb about 80 percent of this additional heat.
     
    The Bear likes this.

Share This Page