Largest Ever Survey of American Gun Owners Defensive Gun Uses

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Reality, Sep 10, 2022.

  1. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    https://reason.com/2022/09/09/the-l...kleei1cwSg7hclZcMN8GnD3TyYTsUUzO1yQSSSjRYU7IE

    Please read the above link in full, and follow the link through to the study itself, or do not comment on this post.

    Much is made by anti gunners of various rather silly and stunted studies done by the VPC and their ilk regarding defensive gun uses.

    Well, how do you like them apples? I believe this survey provides definitive proof that defensive gun uses occur in america with more frequency than the VPC will represent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2022
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  2. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, but measuring the frequency of a rare event with a survey often leads to a gross overestimate. How can we be certain that at least 99.9% of the respondents answered the questions in the survey accurately? I don't think it's a possible without a police investigation to verify each claim of defensive gun use.
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols! It was an “online survey”! Lols!
    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4109494
    Not peer reviewed or even published
    it keeps getting better! Talk about the “bragging effect” I.e. “I only had to flash my gun and they ran away”

    And something is really really fishy here about the fact that one quarter happened INSIDE the home. Were these burglars? Were they people coming to the door? Were they daughters boyfriends? Were they the local cocaine dealer and passed off client?
     
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  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    gun haters want to try to minimize DGUs but what is hilarious is their mantra of "if it saves just one life" which has been used to justify all sorts of idiotic restrictions on law abiding gun owners.
     
  5. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    it must be upsetting to those who want to disarm the citizens of a country they don't even live in, to understand how disgusting we find the attempts to make victims defenseless in OUR country
     
  6. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly, the DGU estimate depends a lot on what questions are asked in the survey. If the survey respondents are asked what actions they've taken to defend themselves then very few will answer that they've used a gun to defend themselves and the DGU estimate drops to about 100k. If the respondents are asked specifically about using a gun to defend themselves then the estimate can balloon up to 2-3 million.

    A better way to quantify defensive gun use is to do it indirectly. Are people with guns are safer? Are they less likely to be victimized? Numerous case control studies have shown that homicides are significantly more common in homes where guns are kept. So it appears that whatever defensive gun use that is happening in such homes does not result in less victimization.
     
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  7. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Those same studies that indicate those risks of higher level of homicides due to a gun in the home show that living alone or renting have a significantly higher risk of homicide in the home than having a gun does.

    Those studies also include criminals in the case group. We already know criminals are dangerous; show us studies that don't include them.
     
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  8. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    That would depend on actual numbers of each incident type. You can't just say "well murders are more frequent where a gun is present in the home" and claim that is equivalent to DGUs.
     
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  9. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    It's an indirect measure. If defensive gun use is preventing violent victimization then the homicide rate should be lower. But it's not. It's higher.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
  10. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    And that's not even counting the number of times that simply displaying a firearm or the threat of one deters a crime and stops it in its tracks.

    And it would be victim never calls the police because there is no need. At that point getting the police involved would only be a headache for the gun owner
     
  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Do you have anything more than your opinion to base that on? For all you know it would be higher yet
     
  12. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Numerous studies have also shown that owning a swimming pool makes people more likely to drown but it is statistically insignificant
     
  13. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    "Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the U.S., where there are more guns, both men and women are at a higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide."
    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
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  14. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    People don't make bogus claims about swimming pools being used as self defense tools millions of times of year.
     
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  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    People are also at higher risk to successfully defend their self with one.
     
  16. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    But they make bogus claims about the dangerousness of guns every day.

    Statistically speaking a reckless driver is far more dangerous. That's a 3,000 lb bullet with a distracted idiot behind the wheel
     
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  17. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense. IF you read the above posts you'd know that 80% of DGU result in no discharges.
     
  18. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Defensive gun use can only occur when the intended victim has a gun. In all of those studies did they indicate if the victim was armed or was just the murderer armed?
     
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  19. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    How do they know the gun ownership rates? Do these studies exclude possession by felons and violent criminals?
     
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Nope! More upset about how many people think that this obvious twaddle is actually research
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols one of my favourite all time skits comes from a British comedy show “Yes Prime Minister” as it shows the effect on question framing in the most brilliant manner ever depicted
     
  22. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True, but how can it be measured more accurately? In the context of gun control, how often guns are used to prevent crime should be a pretty relevent figure. Its also pretty difficult to record... Do you have a better idea how to get better data?
     
  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    But you would have no problem linking some anti-gun propaganda such as every town USA.
     
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  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That increase in homicides is almost entirely domestic violence- people killed by someone they chose to live with. Gun control isn't the solution to folks making bad choices in their romantic and domestic partners.
     
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