Lasers and Gun Control

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by QLB, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It's Tacticool (tm)
     
  2. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Set it to music and you might have something.

    Reminds me of the phoney baloney Kung Foo craze of the 70's, people still could not fight, but they made some really ( not really, sarcasm ) kool (stupid sounding) mouthy noises.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  3. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Still, out of that time period came Bruce Lee, who arguably was, along with Keith Carradine, one of those that brought martial arts to American consciousness. I've met a lot of good martial artists, he would have been interesting to meet.
     
  4. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    The "Tactical Turtle" theory, at least, is based in the idea that driving your entire upper body at the target and hunching your shoulders brings the gun in line with your eyes while enhancing your recoil control for rapid firing. It works in the competition realm somewhat as a way to run the gun that much faster, as it does seem to ameliorate recoil enough to improve shot-to-shot splits by a couple of thousandths of a second, but with the sacrifice of your peripheral vision. Some people argue that since you lose your peripheral vision in a gunfight (tunnel vision) the improvement in recoil control is worth it. I've tried it but feel it awkward, and doesn't add anything to my shooting I can't achieve by simply gripping the gun more firmly.

    The "tactical snatch" idea of jerking the gun back into your chest after firing your shots drives me nuts. You see it in the YouTube tactical world, with guys who fire simple doubletaps, then yank the gun back abruptly to "scan" their surroundings. The idea supposedly is that you are at less risk of having your gun snatched if you pull it back in tight. Okay, fine... but what are you doing 'scanning' without having your weapon's muzzle following the track of your eyes??
     
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  5. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  6. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am a leading expert on the tactical turtle theory 8)
     
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  7. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Oh my ! :icon_jawdrop:
    How very frightening ! :eyepopping:
     
  8. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    be careful or I am going to shell out some knowledge on the theory!
     
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  9. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Oh noooo !
    What a World !
    What a World !

    I picked up on the Turtle joke, shell out.... lol
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  10. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    As I see it the big problem is transition from point shooting to opens sights. The laser solves a lot of that, IF it's dependable and largely on target. About the only time I thought a flash sight picture was effective as in the so called "transition" zone
     
  11. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    That's an interesting point of contention. Bill Jordan only used his sights for long shots; for closer in it was all about point shooting and body index. Jim Cirillo did what he called a "geometric point" where he held the gun low but still looked over the top of the sights, aligning his "point shooting" with a unique sight verification. Gabe Suarez actually brought his weapon up into his line of sight, using the silhouette of the gun itself as a rudimentary aiming point. In my own experience I had an incident where I had a perfect sight picture and another where I was focused on the subject and saw only the silhouette of my firearm superimposed over his chest. Everyone has different physiological factors that I think affect how they act under extreme stress, and I think every person's experience in a crisis scenario is different as a result.
     
  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I have experienced variations of that, all except using lasers.
     
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    CT makes a great trigger guard laser that is controlled by your grip (middle finger grip), so with practice you can toggle it on and off by slight middle finger grip pressure. Simply gripping the weapon turns it on via pressure switch, so there's no fumbling around turning it on either.

    I was iffy on them too, until I got a bodyguard 380 with the CT already on it. The clarity of the green laser, even in full daylight, is striking. It will also punch right through a high intensity flashlight beam.
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They're also great when you can't get a full 2 handed presentation of your firearm, and need to go low and canted from a hip firing position.

    That is not a far fetched situation in a self defense scenario.

    It was also invaluable teaching trigger control to my daughter.
     
  15. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Lasers have their place, fresh batteries etc...
    On a carbine or MP-5 etc..
    On entry weapons.
    On my sidearm, not so much.
    I learned to shoot without them, old dog,
    New tricks etc etc....
     
  16. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No offense, but that's what revolver guys used to say when semi-autos came out.

    I learned how to fight with an M16A2 using only iron sights, but I've come to appreciate the versatility a red dot brings.

    A laser provides options and additional capabilities, and that's always a good thing.

    That said, you need to realize you don't want them to become a crutch, since any electronics can fail when you need them most.
     
  17. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Very true.
    Note that I apply my statements to Me,
    I am an old dog set in My ways.
    I did not stay stuck on Revolvers.

    I said the same about smart guns, I don't want the problems my smart phones give me, migrating to my Guns.
    I survived Gun fights without a laser.
    Good point on batteries.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  18. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah I'm no proponent of "smart guns". They offer no advantage in self defense and only have downsides.

    I can think of situations where I might not be able to get a good sight picture though, and that would make a laser worth it.

    This is the one my wife carries, and how it's implemented requires no additional fiddling to use. It's activated simply by gripping it.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I have used them, Crimson Trace Laser guards to teach trigger control as well. It makes it easier, for both a student and an instructor to spot and correct some issues. I have also found them useful in improving my, and others, sighting/stance mechanics from the draw, including improving point shooting.

    At the range, I train both with and without activating the laser, never wanting to completely rely on the laser. For my old eyes, they help in some lighting conditions as do RedDot sights, particularly on a couple of my guns that don't have highly visible iron sights. I do second the choice of green.

    For my tiny mouse gun, a NAA pug, it turns it from a contact weapon to one that can be used at a bit more distance... worked well on a couple feral dogs that didn't like my bike last year in the middle of nowhere where I had to shoot one handed.
     
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  20. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    As coyotes become more prevalent, I have seen them at night, I have exellent night vision, and coyotes have a distinct silhouette.

    I wonder if I might have to shoot one some day.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  21. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Or set a snar or two.... they have moved into my area.... the cat and small critter population has noticeably declined. Had bounties on them when I hunted them in the 70's... no idea of that these days.
     
  22. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    Rick Perry says "yes".
     
  23. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I noticed what at first I thought was a stray dog, it was very dark and it was very still, unlike a dog, then I saw its shape, head ears,
    Coyote, no collar visible.
    It came closer to me, sadly it was in an urban area with many closely spaced homes.

    There was an oportunity for a perfect shot.
     
  24. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    When I read the title, I thought you were referring to maybe sometime in the future lasers and phasers will be common place and whether the 2nd amendment covers them.
     

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