Less punishment for killing when it is inside the womb? (part 2)

LOL, why are you so "eerily silent" ??

 

Comedy of the day!!

 

Several reasons were given for this not to be anywhere near as simplistic as you repeatedly insist.

You haven't shown any fallacy wrt the point that was made so clearly. There very definitely ARE differences in how we view murder of persons. And, there are also very different circumstances regarding pregnancies.

 

The idea of lesser or no punishments for killing is not new. Killing done in self-defense is usually not punished at all(rightly so). We decide that we can kill some animals, while others we mustn't. We also decide that we can kill some people, like the soldiers and civilians of a country we're invading, while the killing of others is not okay. We can kill gang members and druggies and nobody cares.

It's all relative and it's all arbitrary. It would be entirely foolish to think that a woman's uterus should be immune to this selectivity we apply everywhere else.

 

Abortions would not be an issue if everyone practiced safe sex.

I waited until I was 29 and only with my wife.

 

Babies are living breathing human beings in and out of the womb. I am pro life because I view babies as life.

 

But all humans don't always practice safe sex.....

Words like "if" will never change human nature.

 

Cool! That was your choice. But, that doesn't get you a license to dictate the lives of others who don't happen to agree with you.

Sex IS an important part of human life for almost all human beings.

There is NO form of pregnancy prevention that is 100% - outside of permanent surgical intervention. And, that includes attempts at zero sex.

 

All human life is human life....did you have a point ?

"Human life" has killed each other since day one...or hadn't you noticed? Ever hear of "war" ?

 

Yeah but can you invite someone to live in your home and then kill them?

 

That goes to nothing but your state of mind rather than the OP.

 

No, it goes to the stated argument that a womans body is her own and she can therefore expel the conception who arrived by her own invitation. It is a self defeating declaration. It would be akin to accepting advance payment in pleasure for a room to be occupied by a totally dependent tenant. And then killing the tenant when they arrive, just to make room for doing it again, and again. Not that there aren't circumstances where abortion is justified. But when a woman invites a conception, the womans body becomes as much the childs as the Mothers. It is a basic contract, imo. The perceived injustice of my opinion is simply the willful objection to the self evident truth that Americans will have to learn to be more chaste and less promiscuous. That is the proper exercise of a womans choice and the declaration that her body is her own. A fact to which no one can justly disagree.

 

Nice re-write of "have you stopped hitting your wife?"

Before we can proceed, we need to define the terms that are being used; should penalty for killing inside the womb be less than killing outside the womb? Killing what exactly? A cow? A cancer? A person?

And why are you implying that there should be a penalty for both?

I know that you are doing this intentionally to push those you disagree with into a corner, but I think most people see right through your stupid little game... I don't though, so let's play. Answer my questions.

There is this thing... I am not sure you have heard of it. What is the word again... Um... Oh, right. Consent!

Are you really this dumb?

I am Pro-Abortion, not Pro-Choice, but I decided to answer anyways because your profoundly idiotic question offended my intellect.

I do not really have any limit since I am not an expert on the field of fetus-development. All I know is that it should not be anyone else's job to decide but the woman's and her doctor's. So, this does not really make this supposed "hard question" any more complicated to me.

You simply lack the brains to "pwn" me on this topic.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that Taylor Swift was my hypothetical girlfriend, would you be jealous?

Ugh. If you want to make a rational case, please do not present hypotheticals detached from reality.

Yeah. It is an awful question since it, just like the one above, completely drops context and the answer is the very simple and very same one; consent. A pregnant woman who asks for an abortion is consenting to have the pregnancy terminated. A pregnant woman is randomly sucker punched in the belly by some ****** is not. That is assault.

In the latter scenario it is still the woman and that is in the centre of attention. It is not different because "there is a person inside her" (brcause tnere isn't), it is different because she herself wants to be a mother. She chose pregnancy and the crime is not preventing the potential baby's life, but rather violationg the woman's right to her life.

You are not even half as clever as you think you are. In fact, each paragraph just makes it more and more obvious that your stance on abortion is a disintegrated mishmash of unprincipled conservative nonsense.

"Unborn life" is a contradiction and is thus worth zero. It is a term that implies non-existence and non-existence does not exist, right?

The child I do not have with Taylor Swift is an "unborn child", do you think this one is worth anything? If you do please explain how and if you do not, please explain why you even asked this question to begin with if you do not even agree with tne question's premise and implication.

Geez. You are starting to piss me off, kiddo. Get to the point already.

There is no baby dying in an abortion and abortion is something good.

Here we go again... Ugh.

I am not an expert on the field of law, but I think the first man commited at least one more crime (burglary) that the other, so maybe.

But, you are again - unsurprisingly - dropping all context here. In thr first scenario, the baby has been born and in the second it has not. However, in the second scenario the woman did not give consent (not from what we know at least), so it is wrong too.

This is so, so, so ridiculous.

Yes, finally! A real question that actually has something to do with abortion! I would say yes, but ideally he should just be able to follow her to the clinic to let a professional handle it. Punching her in thr belly (or whatever method this hypitnetical man used) is not very safe and may damage the woman's body. In a civilised society, tne two would act civilised and make a visit to the abortion clinic because a civilised society would allow abortion.

Oooh no! Please don't.

Such wonderful technology will never enter our lives as long as religious zealots like yourself are out to make abortion illegal and to regulate individual rights.

Can that button be used to make Taylor Swift my girlfriend, btw?

In all seriousness, you know your case is absolute garbage when you have to evade reality by creating ridiculous "what ifs" for it to make sense.

Why not? Since when are Conservatives like yourself against stricter punishments for crimes?

Sounds like you once did something terrible to a pregnant woman and this post is how you wish to come clean.

 

In what world is it unethical to pursue one's own happiness and exercising one's right to life and liberty?

In what world is it ethical to ascribe a blob of protoplasm not just the same rights as the woman carrying it, but even more rights?

Keep your religion in the Religion sub. This is where we discuss abortion and if you cannot separate the two you should move to Saudi Arabia, Iran or some other theocratic hellhole.

 

They'll come back with something like; "But, but, what if... What if there was, like, a really big and cute, like, unicorn who could do magic and stuff. Things such as, like, you know.... Turn a pregnant woman into a fetus... Could she now still, like, have the abortion when, like, they are totally the same and stuff...."

 

Cancer would be less of an issue if people lived healthy lifestyles. Your soultion? Probably to ban cancer-treatments.

I am sure Jesus will give you a high five in heaven.

Criiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinge.

 

An image is not an argument.

 

Yes, if they are harming you and the only way to stop the harm is to kill them.

 

If any tenant is harming the "landlord" , the landlord has every right to stop them including killing them if it's the only way to stop the harm.

Uh, like when YOU approve ???

.


No. First at conception there is no "child"...second a woman's body is always her's, not the ZEF's , not YOURS, not anyone's but hers.

Thinking someone can own another's body is slavery.

.


Why? Because you say so ? Hilarious...but you keep on trying to change human nature ( of Americans (??) ) and see how well that works.

Oh, I can justly disagree....women are not property and can do as they please..""her body is her own""" ….just like men do...

 

Fact is a fetus' "life" does not matter when compared to actual living breathing people. A fetus has no rights whatsoever and shouldn't.

 

Sez the baby killing demon and acolyte of Molcoch.

 

lol

 

You do realize that this is the means for everyones existence or the door to our lives. In fact, all life on earth comes by this means. Why would you characterize it as intrinsically harmful when it is self evident that it is intrinsically bountiful?

 

Then again, to say that because a child in the womb isn't born, it may be killed and not be murder, is like the snake that says, "Hey whoa, don't blame me, I only bit her on the ankle. I can't help it if it affects her brain." Wouldn't you still lop off its cunning head or effectively remove it from the equation?

 

WHY would I characterize it as harmful ? Because it IS. Educate yourself :



Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

• exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
• altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
• nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
• heartburn and indigestion
• constipation
• weight gain
• dizziness and light-headedness
• bloating, swelling, fluid retention
• hemmorhoids
• abdominal cramps
• yeast infections
• congested, bloody nose
• acne and mild skin disorders
• skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
• mild to severe backache and strain
• increased headaches
• difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
• increased urination and incontinence
• bleeding gums
• pica
• breast pain and discharge
• swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint paininfection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
  (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
• extreme pain on delivery
• hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
• continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

• stretch marks (worse in younger women)
• loose skin
• permanent weight gain or redistribution
• abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
• pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life -- aka prolapsed utuerus, the malady sometimes badly fixed by the transvaginal mesh)
• changes to breasts
• increased foot size
• varicose veins
• scarring from episiotomy or c-section
• other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
• increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
• loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
• higher lifetime risk of developing Altzheimer's
• newer research indicates microchimeric cells, other bi-directional exchanges of DNA, chromosomes, and other bodily material between fetus and mother (including with "unrelated" gestational surrogates)

Occasional complications and side effects:

• complications of episiotomy
• spousal/partner abuse
• hyperemesis gravidarum
• temporary and permanent injury to back
• severe scarring requiring later surgery
  (especially after additional pregnancies)
• dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
• pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
• eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
• gestational diabetes
• placenta previa
• anemia (which can be life-threatening)
• thrombocytopenic purpura
• severe cramping
• embolism (blood clots)
• medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
• diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
• mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
• serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
• hormonal imbalance
• ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
• broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
• hemorrhage and
• numerous other complications of delivery
• refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
• aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
• severe post-partum depression and psychosis
• research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
• research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
• research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

• peripartum cardiomyopathy
• cardiopulmonary arrest
• magnesium toxicity
• severe hypoxemia/acidosis
• massive embolism
• increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
• molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
  (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
• malignant arrhythmia
• circulatory collapse
• placental abruption
• obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

• future infertility
• permanent disability
• death.