Lets talk quid pro quo

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Nov 28, 2019.

  1. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    There were two different deadlines. The September 30th deadline would have applied to the specific details of the legislation itself, which probably mandated the funding be spent within FY 2019. Had the suspension gone beyond that, the appropriation would have died and a new FY 2020 appropriation would have been necessary. That would also have mandated a White House explanation on the cause of the suspension.
    However, the second deadline would have been the Impoundment Control Act, which mandates that the President first inform Congress of his intent to suspend aid and the cause of such suspension. That was never done. AFTER such notice (which was never done) then Congress has 45 days to respond. If they fail to approve or to disapprove, the aid must go forward.
     
  2. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Articles of Impeachment have not yet been written. Are you trying to argue the President may withhold Congressional funding as he sees fit? Also, "threats" to withhold aid are not withholding aid.
     
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  3. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Donor

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    So if Trump had pulled a Joe Biden, and told Zelensky he only had six hours to make a public statement about starting an investigation, or no aid money, that you would have been cool with????

    BTW, did Congress write those conditions of firing the prosecutor or no aid, into the foreign aid bill? Where did Biden get the power to blackmail Ukraine, and to meddle in their internal criminal investigations?
     
  4. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    US foreign policy was to help Ukraine overcome corruption and support democracy. Biden made more than 7 trips to Ukraine. This was in agreement with foreign policy of the EU.
     
  5. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Donor

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    How does this suggest that the Congress placed language in the foreign aid bill for Ukraine, demanding that they must fire a criminal prosecutor or not receive aid?
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    You're leaping to conclusions.
     
  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After Trump got caught.

    What corruption? Trump has never said, and you don't know.
     
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  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    USA Today reports, "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced Thursday that the House would draw up articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump, setting up a historic clash between the two branches of government that could lead to only the third presidential impeachment in history."

    "Our democracy is what is at stake," said Pelosi, D-Calif., because the alleged misconduct involved interference with the 2020 election. "The president leaves us no choice but to act, because he is trying to corrupt, once again, the election for his own benefit."

    Uh-oh, I can't help but think the Democrats are making a mistake. Failure to remove Trump by way of impeachment can only hurt them. The Senate will exonerate him, and, since their defense strategy worked, that is all the average American voter will remember come November.

    On the other hand, possibly the Republicans will come to regret that they exonerated a President who asked for foreign interference in our elections for his personal convenience and used extortion on a foreign leader as incentive. They have already lost a number of elections in 2018 and 2019 because of Trump.
     
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  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just how dumb is Trump? He wants to call leading Democrats in the impeachment proceedings as his witnesses. Don't believe me? Read this.

    "If you are going to impeach me, do it now, fast, so we can have a fair trial in the Senate, and so that our Country can get back to business," Trump tweeted Thursday morning as he awaited Pelosi's remarks. "We will have Schiff, the Bidens, Pelosi and many more testify, and will reveal, for the first time, how corrupt our system really is." https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/05/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-strategy/index.html

    Incredible.

    There was no mention of Mulvaney, Pence, Perry, Bolton, and Giuliani -- all key figures in the impeachment probe and close associates to Trump -- as witnesses in the Senate trial. However, there is this from NPR.

    The argument of whether to call witnesses goes to a central debate among Senate Republicans on how long a trial could take and what it could look like. Some Republicans, including Sen. Lindsey Graham, a key Trump ally, have warned that calling witnesses could force an impeachment trial to drag on. https://www.npr.org/2019/12/05/7848...icans-huddle-with-white-house-on-senate-trial

    And Trump and Republicans call the House impeachment inquiry a sham. Do they have to make it so obvious that the verdict is already in?

    Putin got what he wanted. The Trump government is a sham.
     
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  10. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    This was after the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. The issue in Ukraine is are you pro-Russian or pro-Ukraine? Biden (along with other Western European powers and organizations, from whom Ukraine was seeking aid in loans and grants, insisted that the pro-Russian Chief Prosecutor be fired before the aid/loans would be granted. This was consistent with official U.S. policy. Trump established a pro-Russian back-channel that was diametrically opposed to official U.S. policy and didn't just threaten to withhold aid, via that back-channel, but actually withheld it contrary to U.S. law.
    So...you're arguing apples and oranges...but then, you're probably pro-Russian, right?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  11. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Donor

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    What the EU wants does not write language into bills passed by Congress. congress would need to put those conditions in the bill, to allow for that type of internal meddling by a VP.

    I want to know where the power comes from, which allows a vice president to meddle in the internal affairs of a nation even if our President placed him as the point man for US-foreign relations with that nation.

    Does Obama signing a foreign aid bill give Joe Biden the power to blackmail that government? Does it give Biden the power and to meddle in the internal criminal investigations of other nations, just because the President put Biden in charge of the diplomatic relations with that nation?

    Someone needs to inform Pence of these new VP powers, cuz he may not be aware that they exist.

    Unless you are suggesting Obama knew about Joe blackmailing Ukraine to fire the man investigating Hunter's former boss.
     
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The report was only required if the funds were to be held after Sep 30th. Since that wasn’t going to happen it pretty much disproves your new theory.
    Still with the dem clown show narrative without any proof. Fascinating.
     
  13. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Donor

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    Typical, you see that I disagree with you on an issue, so you infer I am pro Russian. Why not just call me a white supremacist, or a Nazi to shut me up or insult me, since this seems to be the way of it.

    It was the prosecutor investigating Hunter Biden's former boss for crimes. It was Burisma, a company known to the Obama admin as being corrupt. Neither Obama nor Biden should been anywhere near this blackmail scheme, much less Biden openly bragging about it in public. It looks corrupt as hell, from Hunter's being hired by Burisma and BHR boards of directors, to the firing of this criminal prosecutor. It looks corrupt as hell, and warrants further investigations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    You explained that very well.

    Trump and his friends were also trying to gain control of Naftagaz.. and they needed to get rid of the US ambassadors to Ukraine and Russia.
     
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  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Just after young Biden’s arrival, Ukrainian prosecutors began looking into possible violations at Burisma. Two years later, they found no evidence of any corporate criminality. Appearances, however, do matter: by hiring the vice president’s son and paying him so much money, concerns were triggered. To this day, though, there has been no criminal complaint filed against anyone, much less the Bidens.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensil...es-bid-to-be-energy-independent/#13dd075517df
     
  16. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    In other words...Biden's actions regarding Hunter did NOT "protect him"...but actually but him at RISK if there was anything there...
     
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  17. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Read the whole article if you have a minute.. Forbes is usually pretty good with the facts.
     
  18. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious?
     
  19. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    After they decided to release it.

    The probable cause between Hunter Biden and the Ukraine oligarchs who had him in their back pocket and the State department.
     
  20. ChemEngineer

    ChemEngineer Banned

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    What is truly outrageous is the complete mendacity of the Democratic Party. They never move their lips, or put finger to keyboard without lying. Never. Conservatives misrepresent, of course, but we don't persist and double down on lies like the Democrats do, all the time, from abortion to illegal immigration to the Constitution to impeachment.

    "Nobody is above the law, not even the president!" they solemnly intone, and in the next breath, excuse illegal immigrants including felons, rapists, and criminals who have been deported many times before.
    "If outlawing all guns saves even one life, wouldn't it be worth it!" - Liberal Rant
    Enforcing existing immigration laws would save thousands of lives every year.

    Father-of-five who advocated rights for migrants is hit and killed by illegal immigrant on probation for a DUI who was ordered to be deported back to El Salvador eight months ago
    • Sean Buchanan, 45, from Colorado, was killed when his motorcycle was rammed by a truck operated by illegal immigrant Miguel Ramirez Valiente on August 2
    • A day earlier, Valiente's probation stemming from a 2018 DUI conviction was extended because he had failed to complete his sentence
    • Valiente, an undocumented immigrant from El Salvador, was charged with misdemeanor careless driving on revoked license
    • He made headlines in January when he had sought refuge in a church to avoid getting deported
    • Buchanan was a staunch supporter of rights of immigrants
    • He leaves behind his wife and their five children between ages 6 and 15, including two boys adopted from Africa
     
  21. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Donor

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    I was being facetious, of course congress did not place that type of language in the bill. Biden just manufactured that kind of power for himself.
     
  22. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Donor

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    We will see, now that we have a new president in Ukraine.

    Ukrainian MP Claims $7.4 Billion Obama-Linked Laundering, Puts Biden Group Take At $16.5 Million

    It's difficult to tell right now, since there is a lot of disinformation out there.
     
  23. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Trump released the aid to Ukraine two days AFTER the WB complaint finally was presented to Congress
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yesh they released it. No quid pro quo, no extortion. Nows let's get on with the needed investigation.
     
  25. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    They released the aid AFTER they got caught.

    And of COURSE there was a QPQ attached to the extortion Trump was engaging in
     

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