LGBT and military service

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by DaveBN, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm not suggesting it works 100% of the time, I'm saying that was the reasoning behind it.

    PS: no, I haven't been deployed. does this mean I can't know much about the vet experience?
     
  2. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The purpose of this is to point out the 4.1 percent is largely inaccurate. People with same sex attraction are eventually distributed, it is absurd to sujust you live in an area that has zero percent.

    It is impossible for you to have never met someone that was attracted to their own gender unless you do not associate with any members of the public, which by your posts would explain your narrative.

    Again, your comments are illogical, you sound like a dictator of a Muslim country, or Russia...
     
  3. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not saying that. When you're in the field, do you think there are men and women bathrooms?
     
    DoctorWho likes this.
  4. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Prove that there are more than 5% of LGBTs in the population. You cannot, all you have is wishful thinking. You have nothing to base your wish upon.

    LGBTs are not evenly distributed in the nation, to claim such is absurd and ignorant - a trivial search shows you wrong, search on "where do lgbt live".
    https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/03/where-lgbtq-americans-live/388372/
    "But the gay population remains more concentrated in some cities and metros than others, according to a new survey by the Gallup Organization."

    I may have encountered someone who was LGBT and did not give any indication of being LGBT, but I have never met anyone who I knew or even suspected was LGBT. Of friends and coworkers, its extremely unlikely (about zero chance) any were or are LGBT and in many occupations that sort of thing is not easily hidden.

    Its both theoretically and practically possible to live and not know any LGBT. Its a tv myth that LGBT are everywhere.

    Prove otherwise. Again, you cannot. All you have is wishful thinking because you want to believe LGBT is normal and everywhere when its neither.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  5. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your polls are based on self identification, the idea that gay people do not exist in fairly fairly evenly distributed is insane, there isn’t something in the air that makes people gay. The reason for the variable in the self identified polls is acceptance levels of the surrounding areas.

    These polls admit they are probably not accurate, key details indicating this:
    Increase in same sex orientation over reported years (increases of ~0.2 and ~0.9 per year)
    Increase in same sex orientation from older to younger (more than triple)
    Increase in same sex orientation from less accepting areas to more accepting areas

    ——
    “In an experiment, National Bureau of Economic Research concluded that the share of the population that is non-heterosexual has been significantly underestimated in surveys using traditional questioning methods, even if anonymous. In this study, it was found that, in all three facets of sexual orientation (identity, attraction, and behavior), the percentage of individuals who recognized themselves as non-heterosexual was larger when the survey method in use was the item randomized response, known to reduce socially desirable responding, in lieu of questions with direct responses.”
    ——

    Since you have recenended your statement that you are sure you have never met anyone that is same sex attracted there is no reason to continue, people wishing to stigmatize gay people always grasp upon the lowest numbers they can find. We will have to agree to disagree.
     
  6. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Provide the links to the data. You have shown you don't read articles, and misinterpret what you do read. Until you provide the links, I wont accept your interpretation of the articles.
     
  7. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I posted the results directly, I have mischaracterized none of the studies you have posted - they simply didn’t say what you wanted them to.

    In U.S., More Adults Identifying as LGBT
    “The portion of [mellinials] identifying as LGBT increased from 5.8% in 2012 to 7.3% in 2016. LGBT identification remained relatively stable over the five-year period at 3.2% among Generation X and declined slightly from 2.7% to 2.4% among baby boomers and from 1.8% to 1.4% among traditionalists.”

    The youngest age group is over 5 times more likely to self identify as LGB
    In the last 4 years alone self identification has increased by and average of 0.375 each year.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  8. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    No, you can't in any way.

    What combat is like, to be under fire, see comrades die horribly or get mangled by ieds.

    Just as I can't as a Man, tell you what it means to be a Woman, even though I see many things from a purely Female perspective.
     
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    LG people are NOT evenly distributed, at all. Most will eventually leave agricultural towns and rural areas (if they're born into same), and move to big cities.

    And it's entirely possible to not knowingly encounter such people for an entire lifetime. That is to say, only encounter such people unwittingly, because there is nothing about those rarely met people which advertises their status. Elderly people in small country towns will almost always tell you that they've either never met a gay person, or that the only gay person they've ever met is their hairdresser, or the florist. They will not personally know anyone who is LGBT. I know of families (including my own - on both sides, and even including my in laws) which have not had a single LGBT member, going back generations. Granted there may have been someone who was 'confused', but if there were, he/she sucked it up and got on with conventional family life regardless - as every family member (again, going back many generations, on several branches of the family) over the age of 35 has been married and had kids.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    So you feel I can't know much about the vet experience? Is that what you're saying?
     
  11. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I will take you at your word if you can honestly say you know what is was like when I tried to raise up Seargent Ramos and his head fell off, or called P.F.C. Campanella and he would never speak again since he had bled to death.

    Only those in combat know about it.
    0/11/01 had its horrors too.
     
  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Nobody asks everyone they meet if they are Gay, and here in Oregon, even out on Farms, I have met and spoken to Teens 14 - 19, that admited having a same sex partner, and being LGBT as well as having a keychain or other token with the colours.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  13. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really, that’s fascinating. It’s complete fabrication but ok. Care to point to a source that says most gay people do this?

    Not knowingly encountering could be an accurate statement but that’s not what the position was. It was that he had never encountered someone that was interested in their same sex which is statistically unlikely (at best). The same position that Iran and Russia hold.

    That doesn’t make them correct, sexual orientation is conciliable. Like you said they “sucked it up”, they are not having to do that anymore and it’s driving - checks Gallup - 23% of Americans out of their minds.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I know far more about the vet experience than I'll ever be comfortable with.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    LG people generally do not remain in smaller agricultural communities. And I'm not talking about Vermont.

    No one can know with certainty that they've never met an LG person. That's silly. But people can know that they haven't knowingly met one.

    It would have made them as correct as they needed/wanted to be, at the time. They must have adapted well to hetero life, and managed to live .. assuming any such existed in my own family lines. At least, my blood relatives have all lived long lives, and not produced too many dysfunctional kids. No one has ever been to jail, died of drugs or alcohol, nor stuffed up in a major way. It would be expected that anyone with an intense internal battle (with homosexuality) will visit that self-indulgence upon their family in unpleasant ways. It tells, IOW. There would be rare exceptions to that, of course, but the likelihood is that they would produce damaged goods.
     
  16. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you believe this? Care to cite your source?

    I agree

    It would have made them as correct as they wanted to be - more truth has never been said. I’m not basing my opinion on anything but my on life experience with the following, but I don’t think the intense internal battle would have been as intense in the distant past as it just was not an option, anonymous sex was though.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  17. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Were you a Soldier and experienced these things first hand or were you told ?

    Because being told is not the same as having lived it.

    Reading a book about sex is not the same as having had sex.
     
  18. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You just proved my case. You just demonstrated that
    1 - LGBT is not evenly distributed throughout the population (my point throughout this OP)
    2 - the percentage of LGBT in the population is low (the polls I cited show much less than 5%)

    Thank you.
     
  19. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, your entire premise is based on the only people that are same sex oriented identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual on polls. I have proven this to be incorrect.

    You’re welcome.
     
  20. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Once again you misrepresent your own posts and links. I used polls by reputable organizations (pew, gallup), you used polls, all of them agree - LGBT are a very small percentage of the population, and are concentrated in select parts of the nation.

    You have lost, your own post proved my point, be a man and admit when you are wrong.
     
  21. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, you must not understand the fault of self identification. The polls even identify this as a variable that may alter the results.

    But yeh, let’s go with there are no gays except in SanFrananciso and New York.
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Well .... you're so far off the mark here that it doesn't begin to be funny.
     
  23. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I am not trying to be funny.

    As a non combatant, you cannot pretend you know what it is like to see fellow soldiers suffer and die, and agonize during life saving efforts.
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    What do you think I'm saying? As in, what form of 'understanding' do you think I'm saying I have?
     
  25. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you need to be clear.
    I was at ground Zero on 9/11/01, and lost too many Service members then too, as in any such zone.
    People I knew well.
    How can anyone not having directly been involved know what that is like ?
    There is a moment caught on B.B.C. video of my meeting a firefighter I thought had died.
     

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