Lies and False Narratives of Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But all our humane laws are based on Judeo/Christian, principles, do you think they shouldn't exist?
     
  2. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is atheism your religion? :confuse:
     
  3. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    That's like saying off is a TV channel. Clarification: Growing up believing everything I was spoon fed at home and in church, I did not understand as a child and youth, naive that I was, why Yahweh was not taught or spoken of in school.
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do you know the flood was a lie? I like to think it did happen - I mean come on, how can people in that day and age be so brilliant that they would know how to build an ark capable of surviving a flood? Let's face it, the measurements in the Bible are accurate, and it's the only design that would be able to survive a flood. Coincidence? I think not!

    It reminds me of those that say the Shroud of Turin is a medieval forgery, and yet they wouldn't be able to replicate it today.

    I think people should always start with the premise that something is true before disputing it, rather than the other way around.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  5. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    That is simply untrue.

     
  6. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Bill Nye would dispute the ship being able to survive that kind of planet wide flood. The measurements is one thing, but everything else proves it's just a story. You want to be blown away by overwhelming evidence of that? Just say so and I'll post several videos right now.
     
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm going to give you an example of experts. Once in a while I watch Dutchsince on youtube, and he's anathema to our geologists. For years he's been proving that magma follows a certain route, and he can predict when an earthquake will hit and the size. Yet, instead of taking what he has proven over and over again and using it for mankind's benefit, they rip him apart and play games with him, preferring people die from seismic activity rather than admit they are wrong.

    He's the only one who noticed that the fires in the West are located in areas near volcanos and are coming from inside the earth - and yet he only had a high school education.
     
  8. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look, I'm just hoping the day will come when it can be proven that the earth was not the way it is today. To be honest I believe in an expanding earth, and who knows we might even be in an expansion period today. Take cover!
     
  9. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is he a Satanist?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  10. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    If presenting well thought out arguments and doing extensive research is Satanism, then count me in as a Satanist for agreeing with just about everything he says.
     
  11. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forget Bill Nye - whoever he is. I prefer Saints:.

    "...Let’s have love, meekness and peace. In that way we help our brother when he is possessed by evil. Our example radiates mystically, and not only when the person is present, but also when he is not. Let us strive to radiate our good will.

    Even when we say something about a person whose way of life does not meet with our approval, the person is aware of it and we repel him. Whereas, if we are compassionate and forgive him then we influence him — just as evil influences him — even if he does not see us.

    We shouldn’t be enraged by people who blaspheme or who speak and act against God and the Church. Such rage is harmful. We may hate the words and the malice behind them, but we must not hate the person who spoke them nor become enraged against him. Rather we should pray for him. A Christian has love and graciousness and should behave accordingly.

    Just as a hermit, who is seen by no one , benefits the world because the mystical waves of his prayers influence people and transmit the Holy Spirit into the world, so you, too, should scatter your love, without expecting anything in return — with love, patience and a smile…


    Excerpt from: 'Wounded By Love" by Saint Porphyrios. (Translated from Greek)
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of what you posted is painfully obtuse nonsense. I will address just a small portion out of fear that my head will explode if I attempted to wade through the entire treatise of nonsense in your post - much of which I have previously refuted ... followed by you running to the playground to stick head deep in the sandbox of denial.

    You have no clue what you are talking about - Biblical Scholars have found so many errors (many which are simple typo kind, some of which are intentional interpolation and so on) it is not even funny.

    What do you mean "other evidence" .. different copies of the Bible are what are used to prove this claim. Google is your friend.


    This is just absurd nonsense on so many levels. There are whole books that were removed from the Bible ... such as the Epistle of Barnabus and the Shepherd of Hermes.

    The long ending of Mark is universally recognized as a later addition to the text.

    What "early Church Fathers" are you referring to ? I would like to see you prove this claim - good luck.

    The long history of textual criticism has proven that the Bible has changed over time. Good grief you have no clue what you are talking about.

    For example: Here is Deuteronomy 32:43 from 3 different Bibles. The LXX and 4qDeut are from before the common era. The Masoretic text was written 700-900 AD. See page 7. http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

    In the Masoretic text all references to "other divinities" are removed - one of numerous examples of overzealous translators trying to make the text better conform to the monotheistic dogma of the day. The ancient Israelite's believed in the existence of other Gods - they just only worshiped one.

    Then read the same verse in a modern Bible.

    Almost all the meaning from the older text is lost. No other divinities worshiping the most high ... no angels worshiping the most high , no punishment for those who reject him.

    The last line in all three older texts has God "cleanse his peoples land".

    The modern text has God making atonement which means something completely different. It is no longer his peoples land but God's land. There is no atoning for his people in the previous texts.

    Massive changes to this verse and this is just one example - another is given in the link provided but, clearly you are not interested.

    As per the OP title - falsehoods and false narratives are contained in your OP.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  13. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Those are not Christians, they're Jehovah's Witnesses.
     
  14. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They call themselves Christians, who are you to say they are not?
     
  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The parts that were included in the Bible were assessed to be accurate by the Fathers of the Church - who were Saints and were enlightened by the Holy Spirit. If you disbelieve that, then you are not a Christian. As for inaccuracies, it's a matter of translation and semantics. No language is exactly like the other. The Old Testament went from Aramaic to Greek and then Latin, and the New Testament from Greek to Latin and from there to the Celtic and Germanic languages - or at least in Western Europe. In Eastern Europe it went directly from Greek to Slavic.

    Anyway the understanding of the Bible and the meaning of the words comes from the enlightenment given us by the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave us God's Word, and the Holy Spirit gives us a comprehension of the Word.

    I accept no Biblical scholar since they try to analyze the Word - and that can only come through prayer and enlightenment. Nor do I accept theologians since they can only speak of God. Saints though are different, for they are experiencing God - even while alive. But you wouldn't understand that. It comes with faith.
     
  16. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They could be Mormons?
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think research and knowledge is of God, only the heart is - and with it comes all comprehension. (I had to put that in).
     
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, so maybe there was some morality before Moses, but it was the Christian laws that spread out into the world - thanks to the colonies. See, they did have a purpose, as did the Greeks and Romans. The Greek philosophy went into the Church, and the Roman roads helped Christianity spread. Otherwise builders might still be entombing their daughter's in bridges so they wouldn't fall down. (Ah, the things that were done to appease the gods).
     
  19. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People doubt that the God the Jews worshipped is the same as our Christian God, but He is. Let me explain. God is Pure Love and Creation, and as such He cannot negate from His own Creation. What is interpreted as God punishing others for not obeying Him, doesn't mean it's God punishing them. The reason it's stated that way in the OT, is because it was the only way people could understand it at the time.

    It's like a mother telling her son he'll get hurt if he goes near a fire. She can't tell him why he'll get hurt, since he wouldn't understand. If he does go near the fire and gets burned, it doesn't mean then that his mother did it to him.


    What happens is that when people turn away from God's protection and love, they are causing their own destruction. It's our own hearts that's doing it, not God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is fallacious gibberish - many Biblical scholars and theologians are people of faith. Second - nothing can be proven by faith - faith by definition is belief in something without evidence that that something is true.

    A close friend and relative who is both a man of faith and occupies a high position in the Church once had to deal with an issue in a congregation under his watch. The people in this congregation practiced "speaking in tongues" ... you know .. when the Holy Spirit gives people "God's word". The problem in this congregation was that two different people speaking in tongues had different and contradictory answers to the same question. The Church was divided on the basis of this issue. My relative was responsible for resolving the split in this congregation.

    So tell me .. which person was given enlightenment from the Holy Spirit and which was not ?

    The fact of the matter is that it is often not about "inaccuracies" - nor is it a matter of translation nor semantics. I can give you numerous examples if intentional changes to the Bible, additions, edits, interpolation, artistic license or "Pious Fraud" - sometimes entire books removed.

    Obviously you did not go the the links given you. If you had you would see that this is not an issue of interpretation. You have the same verse in different Bibles. In one text, information that existed in two older texts has been completely removed. This is not an "interpretation issue" .. this is omission of text because that text was undesirable to the translators - because it did not conform to the doctrine of the day. Pious Fraud - on steroids.

    Then in the modern text even the meaning in the older text that had been edited was completely changed.

    Your in denial - and that is that.
     
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  21. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but they're not Christians, either, and you don't see them as often.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Aside from the fact that you nor I have any clue what God actually is - What does your personal version of God have to do with religious history ?

    The God of Abraham was El - Enlil - Creator God - The Father - The "Most High" - Chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. This fact is now so well established that you can find this detailed in the Encyclopedia Brittanica https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

    The God of the Israelite's was YHWH - one of the 70 son's of El - as detailed in Deuteronomy 32. http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf The Israelite's believed in the existence of many Gods - a divine pantheon. This however did not make they polytheists as they were only to worship one God.

    YHWH started out as a war God but later the Characteristics of El and Baal (another of El's sons) were fused into the YHWH.

    The God of Jesus was ? who knows but it certainly was not the same God as the God of the Israelite's. The God of the Israelite's was a flip flopping, irrational, xenophobic, genocidal God with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics. This God made a rule stating that children are not to be punished for the sins of their parents (good rule). This God then turned around and ordered the Israelite's to kill children and babies because of the sins of their parents. The antithesis of "Pure Love".

    The God of the Israelite's ordered that adulterers be stoned to death.
    The God of Jesus ? Judge not - let ye who is without sin cast the first stone

    The God of the Israelite's ordered the murder and slaughter of people simply on the basis that they were "different".
    The God of Jesus is "Love neighbor as self" - Do unto others as you would have done to you.

    I can go on and on ...but if you have not gotten the point by now this would be pointless.

    You should be happy that the God of Jesus is a different God than the God of the Israelite's and the God of Abraham. Now you can say that the God of the Christians is different than the God of Islam :()
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For over 1000 years people started with the premise that the flood story was true. Then people started finding evidence which proved that the story was completely false.

    That folks knew how to build boats back in the day has little to do with the truth or falsehood of the flood story. The Egyptians floated massive blocks of stone for the pyramids down the nile on barges. Khufu's burial boat was 143 feet long and 19 feet wide ...this dates back to 2500 BC .. prior to the Biblical Flood.

    Regardless - we know for a fact that a global flood did not happen around 2100-2400 BC - which is the time period that the Bible gives.
     
  24. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I agree that that is not the debate, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

    I'm sure, but I don't let my arguments bleed into one another. I haven't suggested that there are no progressives that believe those things, indeed, I have pointed out the opposite. I'm just confused to see a lot of effort go into a post defending something like Christianity and still not really address the issues that I find interesting.
     
  25. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    You seemed to be going thst way from this point, which was what i addressed:
    You could, theoretically, find a 'Christian!' labeled group that actually does hate science, education, loves slavery, wants a theocracy, or any number of the narratives listed. My point is that is a 'not Christianity' group, as they abandon the principles from the Founder. Merely co-opting the label, 'Christian!', does not make them followers of Jesus. These hypothetical aberrants are mostly caricatures, created by progressives to smear Christianity. They are straw men, not representative of actual Christian beliefs.

    You will have to speak to those things, then. I am addressing the phony narratives, that i see used on a regular basis in the public discourse.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019

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