LIFE: it begins in the womb

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, May 2, 2018.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The one fact no one can deny, life begins in the womb.

    This video is very sad, the mother suffered a miscarriage premature birth. From the size it appears to be 18-19 weeks.
    The fetus probably only has about another two minutes of oxygen before the blood supply from the reservoir in the placenta runs out. Although you can tell in the video it is already starting to run out of oxygenated blood, it does react and becomes startled when the nurse pokes it.

    19-week-old fetus reacts to being prodded and poked in amniotic sac

    Aborted 14-week-old fetus still moving and wriggling around outside the womb (Warning: graphic video)

    Note these fetuses are not dead (yet).

    Here's a full-gestation baby that was born in its amniotic sac: Baby in amniotic sac
    It's very rare but sometimes the amniotic sac still remains intact after birth.

    This is life. In these videos you can see it clearly for yourself outside the womb.
    But just because it happens in a womb doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
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  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Life" begins long before a womb comes into play. Both Sperm and Egg are "Alive" before combining to form a living human Zygote and this Zygote is quite "Alive" while it transforms into an Embryo which lives while if becomes a Fetus. Eventually this Fetus leaves its protective development chamber (womb) and becomes a living human being (Baby) to join society. If you like I can show videos of little wiggly sperm swimming but, it wont produce the creepy emotional response yours do.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Life began billions of years ago.

    The propagation of life by procreation continues amongst all forms of life.

    During the gestation period there is no "right to life" for human life forms.

    The "right to life" is a LEGAL concept that only applies AFTER birth.
     
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  4. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is life everywhere, including many many forms of it that we consider worthy of being destroyed, sometimes out of necessity, and sometimes just for sport or inconvenience.
     
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  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Oh, are you saying the parents were dead when the woman conceived?







    I gotta hand it you , despite asinine failed thread after asinine failed thread you still post your weekly irrelevant and Totally Pointless piece of claptrap.

    ...and I thank you once again for showing that the Anti-Choice/Anti-Woman faction has NO ammo, no point, no facts, no argument :)
     
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  6. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Objectively speaking, abortion is the killing of a human being in development. And as a society, a gov't, we have decided that killing a human being while in development inside the womb is acceptable. I do not agree with it but it is what it is.

    In order to do this, we have to dehumanize the fetus, by saying it really isn't a human being, yet, and that is the ploy used on the Left. It is absurd, but it has worked on those people who believe a woman has the right to kill another human being, the being she and a male created.

    I just want the Left to admit what they support is all. The killing of a human being in development. And stop with the lying, and trying to weasel out of it.

    But if you want to kill another human, this is the best way to do it. Before it can cry as it dies.

    With that said, I am in full support of abortion in order to save the life of the mother. But one is forced into that choice, and the mother is given more importance, even if the killing is still a very bad thing to do. Personal sovereignty I am in full support of. But that right ends where the nose of another begins, metaphorically speaking. Inside or outside the womb.

    Today there is hardly any need for killing another human, given modern birth control. And so the irresponsible females do it, because they were not responsible human beings, and used modern birth control. As a society they should be shunned, and rejected as decent, responsible human beings.

    If only these killers were responsible people. But the Left supports them and defends them. It is all so absurd. As a society we should never enable and aid irresponsible behavior no matter what area of human existence it occurs in.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Here's the problem with the vague concept of saying that abortion should only be allowed if the mother's life is in danger - EVERY pregnancy has the potential of life ending complications for the mother at any point in the pregnancy. The mother is making a life or death decision when she decides to carry a fetus to term - that's why it should be the mother's decision, and ONLY the mother's decision.

    As for your moronic statement that only irresponsible people get abortions - pure BS. Thousands of married couples have had abortions. If they have sex 200 times a year and contraception is 98% effective, then there is always going to be people who have failed contraception abortions. Mothers who have two kids but financially afford another get abortions - they are making a responsible decision. We had a number of women in the South Florida area get abortions during the Zeka outbreak - the dangers were just too high for a time and there were too many unknown factors, so they put off a having a baby for a year.
    There are women who contract chicken pox or measles while pregnant, which almost always lead to complications for the child - so they abort to have another child later. There are literally hundreds of valid reasons to get abortions beyond just the irresponsible.
     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing moronic about anything that I said. It is a fact that some women who get pregnant will create health risks by carrying it to full term. My first wife had those risks.

    And if someone gets pregnant, which more than likely happens when they are too irresponsible to use widely available modern birth control, that is a pregnancy due to irresponsible behavior. Now, you cannot negate the logic of this, so I would not even attempt it.

    Human beings have to be responsible. So go and push their irresponsible behavior to someone else who cannot so easily see through it. Won't work here, with me.
     
  9. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    So says the guy who will never, ever have to face any complications or danger of pregnancy. Ever.
     
  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a human fetus is killed in an abortion, that's the purpose. A human BEING as in "legal person" is not.



    Yup.

    .


    It isn't ploy, it's a fact. The fetus is NOT A human BEING. I haven't seen anyone say a human fetus isn't human...but it not A human being as in "legal person".






    .



    A pregnant woman is a human, quit trying to dehumanize them by making them nothing more than incubators and/or broodstock.

    Pregnant women have as much right to bodily autonomy as you have.



    Abortion is the killing of a human fetus....I have seen no one deny that.

    I support pregnant women having the same rights as everyone else, you obviously disagree.



    Oh, what a dramatic hyperbolic ploy!


    Saving a woman's life is a bad thing to do !!!??????



    No, you are not, you support the fetus having more rights than the woman it's in and everyone else. Any "rights" the fetus may have ends at the mother's "nose".



    Birth control fails and NO one is obligated to use it.



    :) Never takes long for the misogyny to rear it's ugly head.




    So you want children born to irresponsible people? Don't you like children??








    Women who abort a fetus they don't want or can't afford are being responsible...did you want women who can't afford kids to have them so you can complain about poor women having kids they can't afford and say how irresponsible they are???
     
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  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    EVERY pregnancy carries a health risk and temporary and permanent physical damage including possible death.
     
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  12. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have noted how I feel about endangering the life of the mother. I would not do it. So I don't know who you are speaking to, unless it is yourself?

    I have never ever said that I want abortion to be illegal. For that does not stop them.. the irresponsible. It just endangers their lives. I just want a great push for people to be responsible beings, especially when it comes to human life. And that is not happening, nor has it ever happened. You minimize this killing of the unborn, not by making abortion illegal, but by promoting what I have mentioned. Abortions existed long before it was made legal. Yet that was before modern birth control and easy access. Today with modern birth control, we need to promote responsible behavior for irresponsible behavior kills human fetuses. Human beings. I value human life more than everything else. I have never heard the Left take this position. And it is a crying shame, given what is at stake. Human lives.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  13. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    I just place more value on humans that are already born than those that MIGHT be born. Given the millions of miscarriages each year during the first trimester, there is no comparing the two.
     
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  14. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But not enough on the unborn, IMO. That is what separates us since neither of us want to see abortion being made illegal. For that does not get rid of abortion, and will create more deaths for mothers. We could perhaps have made a difference in the number of the unborn being killed, by non stop public service announcements, and bring up the great need of humans being responsible beings. No one is told these days to be responsible, and it isn't taught here in our schools either, because even teaching of BC in school is not tied with behaving like responsible human beings. That seems to be taboo, for the Left might see it as regressive? Or something else?
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, we wouldn't want to see any women die. Better a thousand fetuses than 1 woman

    There are some rare cases today of a woman dying from pregnancy, but I've never heard a single case of one of these instances where the woman hadn't planned on the pregnancy and wanted it. If you're able to find a case where a woman died when she didn't want the pregnancy but decided to choose life anyway, please share it with us.

    And you do realize that, statistically, you're more likely to die in a car accident than die of pregnancy these days.

    But I imagine what you're mostly talking about would be from illegal back alley abortions.

    (and some women do die from legal abortions too!)

    So you don't believe it's truly a human being until it "joins society".

    I guess feral children wouldn't fit your definition of human.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Considering I said no such thing and you just shoved your nasty words in my mouth.......no comment.

    I do however believe a ZEF cannot be considered a member of society until it is no longer part of someone else without making it more important than the mother.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What makes it part of someone else? The fact that it is inside her? Or the fact that it is connected through an umbilical cord? You do realize that when babies initially first come out, the umbilical cord they're connected to is still trailing into the uterus? This remains until the "afterbirth" or the umbilical cord is cut.

    I'm not 100% sure about this but theoretically it might be possible for the woman to give birth under water and the baby wouldn't need to breathe for a couple of minutes because it was still connected to her. When you stick a newborn baby under water it has a swimming reflex and automatically holds its breath.

    This dad is taking his only 1-day-old baby for a little swim:
    https://www.waterbabies.ie/baby-swimming/your-water-babies-story

    video of 4-month old twins swimming underwater here.

    Time Magazine had an article about the youngest baby swimmer, 9-week-old Julie Sheldon:
    http://time.com/3690587/this-9-week-old-water-baby-was-the-worlds-youngest-swimmer/

    I don't know if this picture is appropriate to show here, but this woman just had an underwater birth and the umbilical cord is still trailing out of her vagina:
    http://www.miamimaternitycenter.net/waterbirth.htm

    This woman actually gave birth in the Red Sea:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ment-Russian-tourist-gives-birth-Red-Sea.html

    I don't advise this, because it would probably be too dangerous to try (the placenta might detach), but what if a woman gave birth in a freshwater lake and immediately started giving her little one swimming lessons before it even took its first breath? It would be connected to her on a leash, so it couldn't swim too far.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I see you still don't know what pregnancy entails .....it's quite a bit more than being attached by the umbilical cord.


    AND what BORN babies do( swimming, playing football, breathing) has nothing to do with abortion anymore than your favorite, Panda Bear Gestation thread does. :roflol:
     
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  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm saying a baby could potentially do all these things before being detached from the mother and taking its first breath.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    .. ..and you would be wrong....born and UNborn are two separate words for a reason....



    If you think a fetus can be removed and thrown in the water to grow on it's own DO turn your thesis in to the scientific/ academic world...they might need a laugh...


    Nope, try the Panda Gestation Argument again :roflol:...even that fiasco made more sense...and it didn't make any sense :).



    and here's on of those questions you find too INconvenient to answer :

    kazenatsu said:
    The one fact no one can deny, life begins in the womb.""""""""












    Oh, are you saying the parents were dead when the woman conceived?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then would you agree all those fetuses I showed in those videos have the right to life, if there was some way to save them that didn't involve putting them back inside a woman?
    Those fetuses were outside the womb.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  24. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both because it is inside of her body and that it is connected. I do indeed realize this obvious fact and in fact delivered 2 of my four kids at home.
     
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  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    .. ..and you would be wrong....born and UNborn are two separate words for a reason....



    If you think a fetus can be removed and thrown in the water to grow on it's own DO turn your thesis in to the scientific/ academic world...they might need a laugh...


    Nope, try the Panda Gestation Argument again :roflol:...even that fiasco made more sense...and it didn't make any sense :).



    and here's on of those questions you find too INconvenient to answer :

    kazenatsu said:
    The one fact no one can deny, life begins in the womb.""""""""


    Oh, are you saying the parents were dead when the woman conceived?





    No, a fetus has no right to life nor any other right because it is not born.....born and UNborn are two separate words for a reason....

    BTW you showed BORN BABIES swimming....


    SURE , I said DO tell how you can make fetuses grow outside the womb......Here is where I said it but you cherry picked it out :

    """If you think a fetus can be removed and thrown in the water to grow on it's own DO turn your thesis in to the scientific/ academic world...they might need a laugh..."""

    I know you like to edit out those inconvenient things in other poster's post so I added them back .
     
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