Like Pope Francis, Democrat Questions if Trump is a Christian

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by carlosofcali, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. AZBob

    AZBob Banned

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    Pictures don’t lie. Run along, you bore me.
     
  2. markjs

    markjs Well-Known Member

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    Not one that proves it was an Obama policy beacause it wasn't. If you did it was an alt-right political porn site, with no factiual basis. But I understand junkies need thier fix and for you that fix is a propaganda sorce for confoirmation biats so you can avoid objective reality and wholly emotionally support Trump despite the facts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  3. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Pictures without explanation do lie. The lie is that Obama had a policy of separating children from parents. "fake". Oh, and you are full of sht, and a parrot for your con-man. You know, he might stop with the phony statements if he knew that people like you were too smart
    to fall for his crap, but I guess he has you snookered. You have been a follower all your life, yes?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  4. AZBob

    AZBob Banned

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    You’re so predictable. guess the AP is a alt-rite poem site to huh?
    Run along now, and try harder next time.
    https://www.apnews.com/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4

    The photos, taken by The Associated Press, were from 2014, during the Obama administration, but were presented by liberal activists as if they showed the effects of Trump’s immigration policy now. Villaraigosa, Favreau and some others deleted their tweets when the mistake was pointed out.

    They had linked to a June 2014 online story by The Arizona Republic titled “First peek: Immigrant children flood detention center.” The story featured photos taken by AP’s Ross D. Franklin at a center run by the Customs and Border Protection Agency in Nogales, Arizona. One photo shows two unidentified female detainees sleeping in a holding cell. The caption refers to U.S. efforts to process 47,000 unaccompanied children at the Nogales center and another one in Brownsville, Texas.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  5. AZBob

    AZBob Banned

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    Insult reported.
     
  6. markjs

    markjs Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is aware of that story. It still was NEVER a policy of the Obama Administration to seperate known families, NEVER. It's made up and you bough it.
     
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't do reporting, so I wouldn't know. I base my debates on fact checking. So I have never had a need, I guess. Your situation is obviously different.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  8. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Trump would not allow any photographs and he has admitted to separating families anyway, so what is your point? The reality is that you have no point. Those pictures that were taken in 2014 were assumed to be policy at that time and were assumed incorrectly. So stop
    flapping. Regardless, the policy depicts a lack of compassion by guess who?
     
  9. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Grow up.
     
  10. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    This guy must be a kid lacking in education.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  11. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    I've known many illegal aliens over the years, and some are my very good friends. I am sympathetic to their situations.

    That said, if a nation is to remain a nation, with sovereignty, citizen rights and legal protections, and government bound by law - that nation must control its borders. The government has a responsibility to it's current citizens to properly regulate its borders.

    My wife is a newly sworn-in citizen. We had to spend several thousand $$$, file endless visa applications, and jump thru mind bending legalistic hoops, but we did it b/c that is the law. That is the process.

    We were married for 2 years before her visa was approved. Our first child was born overseas. I had to fly back and forth many times to see my wife and child.

    In the end, it was worth it. We followed the law, paid the fees, filed the necessary paperwork, and my wife has been living here in the States now for 8 years.

    I fully understand the motivation and emotions of the immigrant, but that does not, and should not, give anyone a pass on obeying and following the law.
     
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  12. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    On the seperation of families - regardless of where you reside on the border issue, it is unconscionable to seperate children from their parents.

    On the "he said/she said" scorecard...

    1) Trump lied.
    2) The left wing media deliberately misrepresented the 2014 photos - which is akin to a lie.
    3) Both sides are committed to playing a futile game of accusations and finger pointing - to absolutely no productive end.

    On point #3, I would argue that is not an accident.

    That said, the Democrats are clearly in the wrong. As I said in my previous post, nations must be able to control and regulate their borders, and uphold the laws of the country.

    If a nation cannot do that, it ceases to be a nation.
     
  13. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    To be fair, as far as I know it was a handful of tweeters, not the MSM, who misrepresented the photos.

    Also, no Democrat has ever said that we should not control and regulate our boarders. Unless you can provide a quote....

    Completely agree that the separation of children from their family should have unanimous non-partisan rejection.
     
  14. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    What was the total out-of-pocket expense for you while your wife was going through the process, including airfare?
     
  15. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    I can't possibly remember specifically... it was over 10 years ago.

    The visa itself was, on a guess, between $1,600-2,000. You don't have to pay it all at once. There is a step by step process.

    Flights were usually between $1,200-2,000... I flew over 5 times.

    We got married in her country (Philippines), which was more red tape and fees. Was warned about having to pay bribes - civil servants are very corrupt there - but was only shook down once for 6,000 pesos ($120).

    Was married to my first wife for 20 years, and we're still the best of friends; but, truth be told, I'd never marry another American woman.
     
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  16. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    That doesn't matter. Most people aren't Christian that claim themselves to be Christian.
     
  17. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    To be fair - the MSM is not fair, or honest.

    They clearly have a left wing agenda, and they tailor their reporting to advance that agenda.

    Leftists and Democrats decry FoxNews for being biased in opinion programming, and they are. They are biased toward the "Republican" side of political argument; but, from a libertarian perspective, that is also left wing.

    That said, Fox's actual news coverage, while never exposing the Establishment, is generally much, much more accurate than any of the other MSM outlets.

    Democrats are fully onboard with flooding the country with as many immigrants, legal or illegal, as possible.

    Immigrants tend to be completely ignorant of the principles of liberty and basic economics. As such, they are easy to target with demagogic propaganda, and can be relied upon to vote Democratic.

    Be it sanctuary cities, acquitting killers, playing the race card... there's no doubting that the Democratic Party is fully committed to importing as many ignorant people as they possibly can.

    Cloward-Piven.
     
  18. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    To continue with the conversation we started, I'll boil it down to attacks on the family.

    Firstly, however, I would point out that I am generally in agreement with the rank and file Democrats on the issues of our endless state of war, and the legalization of drugs.

    But probably for divergent reasons.

    -----------------------------

    As for the war on the family, that is the Democrats battlefront.

    Just as the Establishment Republicans have to deceive and manipulate their followers into accepting and promoting endless war; so too do the Establishment Democrats have to deceive and manipulate their followers into accepting and promoting policies which are actually harmful to families.

    As I said to Giftdone, welfare, food stamps, feminism, no-fault divorce, medical, government child care, social security, Medicaid, housing subsidies, etc, etc...

    All of these things are attacks upon the family - yet, of course they are an easy sell.

    Easy sell notwithstanding, anything that interjects itself into the family unit to fill (or create) a void or missing element within the family has the societal effect of weakening the family unit.

    A weakened family is more likely to be dysfunctional and produce dysfunctional children - who of course become dysfunctional adults, and the process perpetuates itself.

    If your goal is to destabilize a country, you must destabilize the society; and, to do that, you must destabilize the family unit.

    This is leftist literature 101.

    This is why our monied elite, "The Robber Barons", set up the foundation system thru which they could use untaxed money to begin the process of reordering our society.

    They funneled money into every left wing cause imaginable. Promoted radical leftist academics, funded and promoted abortion, divorce, feminism, homosexuality, etc.

    This process began over 100 years ago - and America, at least in terms of liberty vs. limited government, is unrecognizable.

    In short, the Establishment has been wildly successful in destabilizing America over the past 100 years.
     
  19. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I gather two major themes in your post that I find highly questionable. First, that the family is somehow sacred; & second, that liberals want to destabilize society. Since I regard myself as a “liberal,” and feel most comfortable associating with other liberals—none of which have ever indicated to me any desire to destabilize society—I simply disagree with your core assumptions. I can tell you positively, I have no desire to destabilize society. To the contrary, I am deeply concerned by the social disruption currently being fomented on society by those on the other end of the spectrum—Trump & the ultra-rightists. But to be totally fair, I am also concerned by what you seem to point out about the ongoing, constant, unrelenting war between the two sides. That can be & is a real threat to society, and it needs to stop. The only way to stop it is to see the opposition as human like ourselves & worthy of working with to find solutions.

    Your post seems to convey the feeling that you regard families as something sacred. I’ve seen a few families that could fit nicely into that concept, but most families I’ve encountered during my current life here, have been less than comfortable to be around. Families fulfill a crucial mission within any society, but they can (& often do) become the source for much contention & malfeasance in the societies around us. Historically speaking, members of royal families often incarcerated or killed fellow family members while struggling to gain power or the crown. Royal family’s feuds for power were responsible for many horrible wars throughout most of history. Families in most countries &/or societies, have been highly patriarchal in substance, and that has led to millennia of restrained rights for women & girls. It’s still a problem today. In early American history, most of those who immigrated to the New World, did so to escape families they felt uncomfortable in, or excluded from. In many countries today, many young girls are never given the opportunity to pursue their own interests, goals, or loves. Their families make all the controlling decisions for them, & their whole lives are controlled by others around them—usually the father during childhood & youth, then a husband during maturity. This is tragic for those so affected. Families are often the source of years of stress, discontent & pain. They can be a positive force in society at times, but they are more often not. They are most certainly NOT sacred.

    I totally reject your assumption that liberals want to destabilize society. As a liberal myself, I assure you I want no such thing, and I’ve never known another liberal who does. That’s not to say, if you took the time & effort, you couldn’t find an individual or small group of self-proclaimed liberals who DO want to destabilize society & foment dissatisfaction, disruption, & disunity. There are always exceptions to every rule, and you could accomplish the same thing looking into the far right. But the vast majority of liberals are deeply concerned for the health & welfare of both our nation & our society, and want to do whatever they can to improve both. I include myself among them. I feel what we are all witnessing in America right now coming from Trump & the ultra-right, fits more comfortably into your description of social destabilizers than liberals do. I take no joy in saying this, for extremism within ANY human activity is always a vice. Our country has been successful because, until recently, its people have always tended toward the middle ground in matters of state. The further either side moves away from that mid-point, the harder it becomes to retain that success. It appears it’s a lesson this generation of Americans badly need to learn.
     
  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's nonsense. The only agenda the MSM has is to make profits. They are owned by big corporations whose only purpose is to make money for their stock holders any way they can.

    You have been trapped into believing right wingnut media propaganda.

    This is proven by the fact that your whole post is just a series of absurd wingnut media talking points with no basis whatsoever in reality. You need to actually become much better informed if you expect to contribute anything of value to the forum.

    Now, read my sig (below) before responding, please.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  21. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Mayor ButtFuck is making a fool of himself
     
  22. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    There's a lot to respond to there, so I'll take it in chunks...

    You're not getting my point. I am not saying "liberals want to destabilize society". I said the Establishment wants to destabilize society. Liberals are well intentioned, but really have no idea what they're doing.

    The radical "liberals or progressives" may, or may not, be determined to destabilize society for whatever boutique motivation, i.e. homosexuality, anti-marriage, anti-Christian, ugly duckling syndrome, whatever their grievance; but that doesn't mean they are aware of the larger picture.

    On the other hand, most communists are, in fact, aware of what is going on; and, they are deliberately working to destabilize American society - and have been for many years. If you study communism and revolutionary tactics, and read the books of those who came out of those movements, you come to understand the game - in fact, I would argue that it is the only way to understand the game.

    I have studied communism and revolutionary tactics for many years. It is why I can have some very interesting and insightful conversations with communists, as opposed to simple, garden variety liberals - who tend to get overly emotional and view things very simplistically.

    Communists look at liberals as useful idiots. They do the work for them. I remember having a college professor many years ago who was a communist, She was actually a very nice lady when you got to know her; but, she had absolute contempt for liberals b/c she viewed them as fools who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag. We would meet for lunch a couple of days/week - it was a fun exchange of information. She was amazed that there was actually someone in her class who really understood the game. I got an A :)

    Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov has some good videos on youtube (if they haven't been removed). David Horowitz is a pretty informative source. G. Edward Griffen's Creature From Jekyl Island" is a good source to track the money.

    I've worked with Griffin many years ago. Never had the pleasure of meeting Bezmenov. He passed away some years ago.

    XploreR, you have to understand that I am speaking of these things in strictly an academic sense. Personally, I think all is lost - we have deteriorated too far to recover. As the Chinese curse says, "May you live in interesting times".
     
  23. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    To all of you "liberals"...

    Since the onset of the civil rights movement, and LBJ's " Great Society, single parent households in the black community have gone from 20% to over 70% today.

    And whites from 5% to 40%...

    Don't think this requires much proofing, but studies clearly show how devastating this has been.

    Do you liberals really want to defend that; or, argue that it hasn't had a devastating effect on those families and society??
     
  24. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I think your post does a disservice to the facts. If we simplify "liberals" vs "conservatives" by assuming Democratic Presidencies represent "liberal" times & Republican Presidents represent "conservative" times, it makes sense that to be blamed for all this change, Democratic "liberals" would have to be in office to promote their views. But a quick tally from LBJ's administration starting in 1965 thru Trump's first half administration today, shows Democrats in power for 24 years, and Republicans in power for 30 years. So, blaming liberals only for these generational changes makes no sense.
     
  25. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Now that makes no sense :)

    What did/does welfare do?? It subsidizes single motherhood, among other things; but, that is the long and short of it.

    As always, subsidize something and overnight you have more of what is being subsidized. 20% to 70% in the black community.

    The liberal argument would be - out of compassion.

    And the companion liberal argument would be that conservatives want to keep all their money and not give the single mother and her starving babies a dime - b/c they're greedy and mean. Right??

    Would Republicans holding the White House occassionally result in more unwed mothers for some reason??

    Also, Democrats held control of the House for what?? 712 years before 1994, right??

    And since all legislation must originate in the House, how does what you've written above make sense??
     

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