Little ice age refresher course

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by sawyer, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    11,892
    Likes Received:
    2,768
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've brought the subject up in here before but there seems to be a new crop of AGW proponents frequenting this forum that need educated. They like to put charts and graphs up showing how we are so much warmer than the pre industrial era and one even told me we were actually cooling until industrialization. Well yeah we were and here's why. Using the several hundred years of the little ice age as a base line for so called normal temperature is the epitome of dishonesty and or lack of knowledge.

    For your reading pleasure.

    "The Little Ice Age was a period of regionally cold conditions between roughly AD 1300 and 1850. The term “Little Ice Age” is somewhat questionable, because there was no single, well-defined period of prolonged cold. There were two phases of the Little Ice Age, the first beginning around 1290 and continuing until the late 1400s. There was a slightly warmer period in the 1500s, after which the climate deteriorated substantially, with the coldest period between 1645 and 1715 . During this coldest phase of the Little Ice Age there are indications that average winter temperatures in Europe and North America were as much as 2°C lower than at present.

    There is substantial historical evidence for the Little Ice Age. The Baltic Sea froze over, as did many of the rivers and lakes in Europe. Pack ice expanded far south into the Atlantic making shipping to Iceland and Greenland impossible for months on end. Winters were bitterly cold and summers were often cool and wet. These conditions led to widespread crop failure, famine, and population decline. The tree line and snowline dropped and glaciers advanced, overrunning towns and farms in the process. There were increased levels of social unrest as large portions of the population were reduced to starvation and poverty.

    Marginal regions

    During the height of the Little Ice Age , it was in general about one degree Celsius colder than at present. The Baltic Sea froze over, as did most of the rivers in Europe. Winters were bitterly cold and prolonged, reducing the growing season by several weeks. These conditions led to widespread crop failure, famine, and in some regions population decline."

    https://www.eh-resources.org/little-ice-age/

    I particularly like the part on how glaciers advanced, the same glaciers that that's​ the AGW crowd are so upset about because they are smaller than they "used to be".
     
  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Imagine what I degree warmer will do....instead of regional freezing you get dry rivers, instead of lager glaciers you get sea level rise. These are reasons people are concerned about climate change...colder OR warmer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Imagine what I degree warmer will do....instead of regional freezing you get dry rivers, instead of lager glaciers you get sea level rise. These are reasons people are concerned about climate change...colder OR warmer.
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually you get more rain. Warm is wet, cold is dry.
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Warmer is better. Many crop areas will start to work better.

    Today some are hysterical including the departed government of the USA. Such hysteria was unwarranted. One more way Trump will make America greater again.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was in Germany in the winter of 1963 and went to Amsterdam on leave. I was amazed that the harbor was frozen. I have photos of birds walking on one of the canals of Amsterdam on the frozen ice.

    This is a link to what was going on in London which really is not that far away and they had feet of snow in London. I recall then the people talking of this record cold winter.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2008/09/04/bigfreeze63_feature.shtml

    Sent out on the only field problem I was involved with in Germany that winter, I can witness myself that if you think Bastogne tht winter of 1944 was cold, one had to be there in the winter of 1963 to really know cold.

    [​IMG]

    Amsterdam looked like London did.

    https://weatherspark.com/history/28624/1963/Frankfurt-am-Main-Hessen-Germany

    I was based In Schweinfurt, Germany which is a 2 hr drive to the East.

    Anyway, that winter was numbing cold.
     
  6. NCspotter

    NCspotter Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    It's not like the world climate stood still before the industrial age (mid-1800s). There are things that humans have done that aren't the best for the planet, but it's hard to take someone seriously who looks at 150 years worth of data and applies it to something that is 4.6 billion years old.
     
  7. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't have to imagine. Greenland would be green on the southern coasts and settled by Norsemen and there would be vineyards in the UK just as in the Medieval Warm Period.
     
  8. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,101
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is refreshing to be educated by someone that disagrees with over 90% of the scientist on the planet. Global warming is real and caused by man.
     
  9. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    97% agree that some of global warming is caused by man.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,487
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ??
    Glaciers are one of many clear indicators of the change that is taking place.

    You make it sound like climatologists think the landscape is prettier with glaciers, or whatever.

    Please tell me that's not so.
     
  11. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Anyone can take a single event or condition out of the prevailing trend and argue that the prevailing trend is not real. We got 18 inches of snow thus past Thursday into Fridayday so we must conclude that yippie Global Warming is over!

    If you have cancerous tumors growing and the last does of chemo or radiation temporarily stops or slows it down have you been cured of cancer?
     
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,435
    Likes Received:
    51,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nature does just fine with the constant warming and cooling that has been going on since the planet formed. We aren't going to get into climate engineering to benefit wealthly liberal coastal gentry. My gawd those guys are whiny self indulgent cry babies! Make the ocean stop rising before it floods my mansion I stupidly constructed on sand at sea level!
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Agreed nature certainly does....Humans....not so much.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    (((((((((((((((((((((((Sigh))))))))))))))))))))))

    And once again I have to teach many denialists about the term "Global"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

    At the same time there was a solar minimum - called the Maunder minimum which your link discussed

    So - is there any solar increases at the moment to explain the current global warming?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yep!! And where there has been rapid temperature change like at present there has also been massive extinctions - not nice to live through

    Meanwhile Australia has seen heat wave after heatwave - and we are on high alert this weekend because of the bushfire danger
     
  15. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,435
    Likes Received:
    51,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Humans are fine. The whiny coastal liberal coastal gentry that built homes on sand at sea level? Maybe not so much. No matter how loudly they whine and scream, threaten to hold their breath, and demand we stop the oceans from rising, they will keep rising. What a bunch of self entitled self indulgent brats.
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,435
    Likes Received:
    51,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where mass extinctions are associated with temperature trends, its cooling trends not warming trends. You have it ass backwards.
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You have lived through mass extinctions? How old are you?

    Little Ice Age was global: Implications for current global warming

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141119204521.htm
     
  18. kgeiger002

    kgeiger002 Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Please provide the list of 90% of the Earth's scientists. Thanks...Though I won't hold my breath on you providing that.
     
  19. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Hopefully you understand that the oceans do not end in California.
     
  20. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I see....so rather than accepting verified fact you prefer to sideline by asking for impossibility?

    The list would obviously crash the server if it could be completed.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,435
    Likes Received:
    51,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The oceans have been rising for 20,000 years at an overall rate of a 1/4 inch a year. They are only rising at a 1/5th of that rate now. You would think the whiny little brats would be thankful, but they just whine louder!
     
  22. kgeiger002

    kgeiger002 Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    Messages:
    2,132
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It's a BS stat! Please! Anyone who accepts rational thinking (for both sides of the argument) knows that.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Translation: You can't provide the list so you divert.
     
  24. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A rapid change ?? The climate sensitivity to CO2 is ~ 1 deg C.
     
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So the oceans have risen 5000 ft?
     

Share This Page