Lower standards to allow white men into special forces

The problem- sorry- A problem with this logic is that special forces are not "average", they are elite. At the top end of the spectrum are many white men. Like 2018 World's Strongest Man winner Hafpor Bjornsson (the Mountain from Game of Thrones). Or 2017 World's Strongest Man Eddie Hall. Or 2015 and 2016 World's Strongest Man Brian Shaw. Or Louis Cyr, the strongest man ever to have lived. All white. Conversely, there are NO cases- ever- of the strongest woman in the world being stronger than the strongest man in the world.

 

No. The spirit must be broken. No acceptance otherwise.

 

What about swimming ?

You know why the only time you see black seals is near the ocean but you rarely ever see black U.S.Navy SEAL's. You only see white SEAL's.

I think it has to do with blacks aren't strong swimmers and they don't float and if they stop treading water they sink like a rock.

 

That's true. The Nobel Peace Prize is not awarded for science or knowledge. It is awarded for peace.

 

The elite has nothing to do with color or gender. It has to do with who can meet the standards and exceed past them. SEAL instructors don't give two shits about a color. They care about achievements as a team. Same with the SF pipeline. If one cannot meet those standards for the teams, they are cut. In many cases, they are given multiple chances to pass. I believe in SEAL training the dive pool and drown-proofing evolution's, they get multiple tries to pass. Same can be said for Army SF pipeline.

Not about race or gender. About who can push themselves the furthest.

 

My point exactly. My pointing to top-end white men wasn't trying to show racial superiority, just to refute the claim of racial inferiority.

 

‘No trees in the water’





Buoyancy of African black and European white males.

Abstract
Twenty-six male swimmers (13 Blacks, 13 Whites) matched for age, weight, and stature were subjects in the comparison of anthropometric characteristics and horizontal and vertical buoyancies. Subjects were tested in a swimming pool in the horizontal position. The time necessary for the body to return to the vertical position defined horizontal buoyancy. Vertical buoyancy was the hydrostatic lift necessary to maintain the subject immersed to the nose. The results indicated similarities in arm span, trunk flexibility, and full inspiration and exhalation of Black and White subjects. However, there were differences in body fat distribution (P ≤ 0.05) and buoyancies (P ≤ 0.01), with Whites storing more fat and having better buoyancy than Blacks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28561485

 

Body fat among Olympic swimmers:

"It's easy to look at Phelps' long run of success — especially since he's returned so seamlessly — and chalk it up to his physical gifts. He is 6-foot-4 and has a 6-foot-7 wingspan. He weighs a lean 194 pounds, with just 5% body fat."


Low body fat certainly hasn't bothered Michael Phelps.

 

Actually it does.

What many seem to miss is that the majority choose to join the military because they want to. Family tradition, personal challenge, college, training, "Alpha" type personality, the reasons are many. But let's examine some of the facts, shall we?

59% of the US population has a high school diploma, compared to 93% in the military.

Hmmm, maybe they do get the cream of the crop.

Of those who enlist for the first time, the majority are just out of high school. And like myself, most I knew had planned on joining the military for years prior. It was not just some kind of rash decision. Like those who went into law or mechanics or cooking, it was a planned career choice.

The truth is, most of those that are marginal never make it past the initial recruitment phase. Drug use, criminal background, lack of education, lack of ability to pass the standard tests, the majority of them wash out long before they even make it to the processing phase. So even of the "marginal" ones that feel like they have no choice, most of them never get far enough to actually join.

And depending on the branch, you can often spot them. In the Army, Cooks, Truck Drivers, and Supply is often full of the "Marginal ones". These often require some of the lowest test scores, and do not need any kind of security clearances. Because their careers are planned out in the recruitment phase, the ones that barely pass the tests tend to be shoved into those careers.

In the Marines, it is less likely because few enter with a "Picked field". But those that are trained in say radio operation or jet repair and are marginal will instead end up working "additional duties" for most of their career. Things like mess duty, assisting in the gym, doing guard duty at the gate, anything to keep them off of their actual duties.

I do not know about the AF or Navy, but I am sure it works the same there.

You would probably be shocked if you ever hung out at some of the smoke pits on a military base. Yea, the guys might be talking about the girls they saw at a strip club the last weekend, or the drinking binge they all went on. But we also might be talking about literature, art, classic movies, or philosophy. One guy I remember I used to have some great discussions about Shakespeare, and even on how The Lion King was really Hamlet (and The Lion King 1½ was really the Tom Stoppard play Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead). Another I still keep in contact with was a voracious reader, devouring books at a rate almost the same as mine (5-7 a week).

I have known published authors in the military, artists who had gallery showings, and more than a few musicians. One of my COs finished most of her PhD on deployment, and I know three that finished their Masters Degree at the same time.

It always bugs me when people still have the idea that most who join are criminals and are barely able to read. It however does show me their bias, and that they are incredibly ignorant and really have no idea what they are talking about.

 

But combat is much much more than being able to shoot.

Great, so a female can shoot. Can she do 20 miles with 120 pounds of gear on, then drop that gear and be able to do a patrol and shoot? Even more important, can she keep up with her platoon during that 20 mile forced march? Those are the kinds of things that females have had a problem in, not the shooting part.

That is for example why women have been in the MP Corps (and other security functions) for decades, but not the Infantry. The vast majority of females simply lack the kind of heavy muscle endurance to do those kinds of tasks. And this is not being sexist, it is a fact. Show me an Olympic class female athlete that can perform to the standards of a male athlete of the same ranking.

The female Marathon record is 2:15:25. The male record is 2:02:57. Almost a 12 minute difference. The male record for long jump is 8.95m, female is 7.52. A difference of almost a meter and a half. The only Track & Field event I have ever been able to find where women outperform men is in Discus, but that is more about leverage and form than brute strength (and many coaches believe that the lower center of mass allows women to use that leverage to greater effect). In a similar event which relies more on brute strength than form (Shot Put), men once again out perform women (23.12m Vs. 22.66m).

If men and women were truly "equal", then we would not have them competing separately in Olympic events.

Far to many think that all it takes to be in the Infantry is the ability to shoot. That is actually a fractional part of the job, you have to be able to get to the location, then you have to be able to shoot. And no matter what assets we may have available (trucks, helicopters, APCs), we always train as if we have to walk there, because all to often we do have to walk there. Or once we get there have to walk around on patrol. Or if our buddy is wounded have to drag them (with all their gear) to a safe location for treatment, then to another safe location for extraction.

When I was in the Infantry, I did hundreds of training missions where we had to hike 10-20+ miles to get to our training site, then immediately go into attack or defense drills immediately afterwards. Then continue this for 4-5 days until the return hike (the same distance out but in reverse). I can probably count on 2 hands the times we were trucked or caught a helo to our site instead of hiking. And most of the times we took a helicopter we had no choice, we were on a ship at the time and could not hike there.

But once we got off the bird, we still generally hiked another 5-10 miles until we hit our objective.

 

He is discussing the average, not Olympic class athletes.

One thing most people tend to miss when looking at Olympic class athletes is the cultural preference in general for specific sports.

I came from an area that had 2 strong sports in the region. Football, and skiing. On the gridiron, you saw a pretty even mix racially. But on the local ski slopes, it was like watching a day as the Ascot.

How many black hockey players are there? Golfers? Swimmers? Figure Skaters? Skiers? Bobsledders? Biathalon participants?

Yes, there are some. And many excel in those sports. But culturally, they are more likely to go into Basketball and Football than Lacrosse, Golfing, and Figure Skating. It has nothing to do with the potential of one race over another to be better, but simply the sport a particular individual might choose to participate in.

I was on the school ski team for 4 years. We had 45 members, the only minorities were a handful of Hispanic and Asian students, only 1 black member. Our school race champion was actually a Vietnamese girl who had first come to the US in 1975 after the boat lift. Only skied for around 6 years, but she was a natural, and a competitive speed skater back in Vietnam. Her leg muscles were amazing, as was her racing form. I actually watched for her name in the 1984 and 1988 Olympics, but did not see her in the US team.

The sports that my family participated in was almost stereotypical "White Man Sports". Skiing, bowling, and sailing. My dad was a really good baseball player in High School, but team sports never appealed to me. I did inherit many of the abilities for that sport, but it never appealed to me to play it so I never developed them.

 

That's a big ski team, where was that may I ask?

 

Idaho. That is the combined team, both Varsity and JV.

And both Alpine and Nordic (Downhill and Cross-Country).

 

Can't speak for the Army, Navy or Air Force but back during the "Old Corps" every Marine had to be able to swim and you went through a drown proofing course. Basically staying afloat with a M-14. There was a lot of water threading involved. If you failed it was entered into your SRB as a swimming non-qual.

Most blacks failed.

Staying afloat without making noise or treading water. A lung full of air.


The Ribbon Creek Incident when a Marine DI marched his recruit training platoon into Ribbon Creek at MCRDPI and all of the black recruits who couldn't swim drowned.

 

I remember that incident. It was a big deal.

"all of the black recruits who couldn't swim drowned."

Of course, they couldn't swim.

A platoon from my company lost 3 guys crossing a fast-moving river at night in Vietnam. An RTO, who couldn't swim, went under and then 2 other guys tried to get him and they drowned too. Bad night.

 

Physical standards are not the only standards for special forces. Just as important, if not more so, are the mental requirements. Intelligence, toughness, determination, able to focus in difficult conditions.

I won't comment on which race seems to have the advantage in the mental factors.

 

Exactly! also the tallest men on earth are white Caucasians. Also the best warriors till they allowed the fems to socially castrate them.