You guys seem to need a serious lecture on the Middle east and its history. The Ottoman Empire was multi ethnical and multi religious and from 1839 to the Empire's end there was no sheria law whatsoever.
I just say on the news that during the trial of Khalid Sheik Mohammad and his defendants, they were mocking the trial...one of them made a paper airplane. These people are evil and vile and deserve all the punishment the law can visit upon them. Life in prison without parole or death will do for me.
Jews and Christians also practiced Taqiyya. Islam allows it only when life is threatened. One group of Jews who practiced it were in Spain called maranos. The Christians also practiced taqiyya and one famous one was the man called by them St Peter. Did he not deny Jesus to save his own life? Did he not according to Christians then become head of the church and 1st pope? Why would someone who practiced taqiyya become 1st pope? You all read and quote too many anti Islam sites and lack basic knowledge on Islam but that is of course the agenda isn't it.
do you also think the men who fly real airplanes and drop bombs on innocent people are also evil? those guys who slaughter children by drones at night in bed? to me they are also evil
I don't support interventionist wars in the ME. But you are skewing the discussion. Don't bother, it won't wash. Christian fundies don't have an agende to take over the world and dominate it. Islam DOES. Christians fundies didn't hijack a bunch of airliners and ram them into buildings. Islamic Jihadists did that, and all the deflections and parsing of words cannot change that. this man is prolly the man in the fourth window from the right, in the first picture I remember the first time, when they bombed the WTC. I watched 9/11 on live TV. If you think for one minute I will ever forgive, condone, or understand fundie Islam, or trust a Muslim, you are wholly mistaken. .
It preaches war and hatred. Unquestionably. And this post I'm responding to here, is a perfect example of the taqiyya lying, that is the topic of this thread.
They are doing that against al Qaeda. And they wouldn't be doing it if al Qaeda had not attacked us numerous times. If you ask for war, you get war.
Why does the organized left love the Muslims so? Why do the dems support them above Christians? I'd like to know.
Anyone have any idea why the dems support the Muslims over Christians and Americans? Why the Ground Zero Mosque was supported by them? And look at this...
We support the oppressed above the corrupt, not one group over the other. Why do liberals support Muslims and Arabs in general? Because liberalism support the oppressed. We support human rights and basic human dignity regardless of whether or not they simply belong to a race or creed so hastily associated with extremism. The classical liberal ideal is that government should aim to maximize the best interests of the individual and protect the basic will of humanity through methods of cooperation rather than merely fight for the interests of a select few. We must look out for the best interests for all. Most Muslims look at Al Qaeda the same way that most Christians look at the Westboro Baptist Church. If we choose, we can live in a world of comforting illusion in which we can simply and easily generalize our logic and condemn an entire association of people so we can find a location to place blame and find comfort in the authority of our right wing or centrist nationalist idols. Please watch this, just get past the superficial color of his skin and place of birth. <<< MODERATOR EDIT: INSULT >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRKdQSey3Go
I've been paying attention for a long long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baader_Meinhof_Complex We can't fix what's wrong with them. We can and should defend ourselves. The Ottoman Empire still lives.
You do not speak for all liberals. Many (if not most) liberal Americans support the oppressed but not the oppressors. Muslims are oppressors. Sharia Law and the cause (islam) are a disgusting blight in the history of humanity. Never has a religion been so abusive to human rights as islam is. The only way our species will evolve is when islam becomes a thing of the past. In fact, islam cases the devolution of our species. It has no place, no value, and needs to be eradicated from this planet. Hopefully peacefully, but however it needs to happen it absolutely needs to happen.
Muslims value a civil and peaceful society and they are more interested in the rights of victims than the rights of the accused.
Just because you say that does not make it true. Muslims are far from civil and far from peaceful. In Saudi Arabia they still do public beheadings in the central square in Riyadh. In Pakistan, they execute women for having been raped and let the men go free. Every Sharia Law country is an abomination to human rights. Anyone who thinks muslims are peaceful are either lying or kidding themselves. If you want to tell someone about wonderful and peaceful islam, tell the 1.2 million Asian slave women being held captive in Saudi Arabia that are beaten and abused daily.
I lived in Saudi Arabia nearly two decades.. and I lived in Libya and Kuwait very briefly. Where are you getting your information?
Don't try to play me. I lived outside of Riyadh for two years. I know what went on there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia The use of capital punishment in Saudi Arabia is based on Sharia (or Islamic law) and is prominent internationally because of the wide range of crimes which can result in the death penalty and because it is usually carried out by public beheading. In 2011, the Saudi government reported 26 executions in the country. Unlike executions in most other countries that have not abolished the death penalty, Saudi Arabia performs public executions in central Riyadh, instead of privately executing criminals in prisons. It is one of the last five countries to still carry out public executions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia The physical punishments imposed by Saudi courts, such as beheading, stoning, amputation and lashing, and the number of executions have been strongly criticized. The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, stoning or firing squad, followed by crucifixion. The 345 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 were all carried out by public beheading. http://www.gvnet.com/humantrafficking/SaudiArabia.htm Human Trafficking & Modern-day Slavery Saudi Arabia is a destination country for men and women trafficked for the purposes of involuntary servitude and, to a lesser extent, commercial sexual exploitation. Men and women from Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, the Philippines, Indonesia, Sudan, Ethiopia, and many other countries voluntarily travel to Saudi Arabia as domestic servants or other low-skilled laborers, but some subsequently face conditions indicative of involuntary servitude, including restrictions on movement, withholding of passports, threats, physical or sexual abuse, and non-payment of wages. Women, primarily from Asian and African countries are also believed to have been trafficked into Saudi Arabia for commercial sexual exploitation; others were reportedly kidnapped and forced into prostitution after running away from abusive employers.
It takes more than a decade to get the Saudis.. You were a temp. Foreign workers support huge families back at home from wages in KSA.
I could care less how much money folks make off Saudi Aramco. I have friends making that coin now and have for years. That doesn't mean those people are not barbarians. They are. They are just disgusting pigs with a whole lot of oil money. It's a shame I had to spend time protecting them. I would have preferred that Saddam overran them and we stayed home. Muslims killing muslims means less than nothing to me. It just happened that we wanted the Saudi oil so we looked the other way at what barbaric animals they are.
I would qualify your post with the phrase "some Arabs are oppressors", and "the only way we can evolve is when Islamic extremism becomes a thing of the past." Muslims in general are not the enemy nor the oppressors. Muslims are not oppressors, extremists are oppressors. Islam and Muslims themselves are not to blame, oppressive social structures are. We have the reactionaries and extremists and we have the peaceful and caring. We have to see the good and bad in all religions and people instead of inspiring hatred by hastily generalizing a people if we are to achieve progress. In my statement about supporting the corrupt over the oppressed I meant to refer to the Palestinian people over the Israeli government's interests and the Arab people of the middle east over the interests of global superpowers. The Arab people are oppressed by both external forces and internal extremist forces. National governments seek to make people who are obstacles in their path of dominance unpeople. The outlook of not supporting the so-called "oppressors" is a great way for governments and indoctrinated civilians to justify war and inspire popular submission, obedience, and ignorance towards governmental acts of destruction of foreign living conditions, the raping of natural resources, and the murder of innocent people. If you suggest we bring change by force, I will agree with your idea that Islamic oppression must be eradicated, but question your definition (as well as the definition of many other "liberal Americans") of the word liberal and your theory on how human progress is made. Classical liberal philosophy asserts the value of human rights and individual freedoms and liberties and does not attempt to justify mass oppression, slaughter, and destruction for the sake of nationalism, power, or even reform. We have to support the best interests of all people or else let humanity suffer the consequences. The ends don't justify the means. Change needs to be made, but not by unnecessary murder and destruction. Force cannot be used to spark change. Fire cannot be fought with fire without fiery opposition. Civilians are murdered for the sake of intimidation, communities are destroyed for the sake of submission and control. Violence leads to popular resentment. When force is used to impose change or submission retaliation and conflict is inevitable. Violence isn't the way. True long-lasting reform and peace can only be made through the peaceful diffusion of ideas. Islamic extremism is unfavorable to humanity and needs to become a thing of the past, but it can only truly and justifiably be achieved through supporting the best interests of the Arab people with peace and cultural diffusion. Contrary to what some believe, there is value in all people and nothing justifies the destruction of the innocent, no matter if they are brought up in an oppressive social system or not. Social Darwinism is no justification for forceful violence. Favorable reform cannot be brought by force. Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that.
1. If muslims in general aren't the problem, why have they allowed Sharia Law and why haven't they fixed their stupid book Koran so it stops instructing all muslims to kill or enslave every non-muslim on the planet? That fix would show they were interested in evolving into a modern religion. 2. Jews are the true owners of Israel. They were there in 1,000 BC. That's 1,300 years before mohammed the pedophile made his sick, twisted cult just so he could nail 6 year old children like Aisha. Jews were chased from the area by invaders a few dozen times. You can't blame them for wanting to go home to their holy land. 3. If muslims collectively had half a brain (which clearly they don't), they would pony up to the bar and relocate these pallies from those ghastly tent villages back into the oil rich countries and build them nice homes, hospitals, and schools. You know why they don't do that? Because they are using these poor people as some sort of sick sacrifice to help them band together to exterminate the rest of the Jews that Hitler didn't get. And it's not that they don't have the money for a large scale relocation. They have plenty of money to build homes of gold and have harems full of sex slaves. If the wealthy muslims can afford that, they could afford to put an end to the horrific lives the pally squatters are suffering through.
Still am. If you are in good health and under 40 or so, you can be too. Then you would see your brothers die and suffer for some stupid diaperheads that just accidentally found some rotted dinosaur oil under their sand.
1. None of the Mesopotamian doctrines are modern. Read the old testament. Why haven't any of the Abrahamic religions edited and removed the barbarian and abhorrent passages of their texts? It's tradition. There are different interpretations of traditions and doctrines, some reactionary and some more liberal. I know plenty of Muslims who are kind, caring, understanding and overall good people. Just try looking around for a while, you'll find that many Muslims don't want violent Jihad and bloodshed. Just look at Palestinian opinion polls, you'll find that even the majority of the Palestinian people support peace and oppose violent action. 2. Jews held Israel in a context of tribal warfare. Nothing justifies state fabrication, thievery, oppression, aggression and forced removal and separation from human homes and loved ones in the modern day. Doing the same thing that created the problem does not solve the problem. If the Jewish people and Zionist leaders actually respected human rights, freedom and dignity in their search for a home they would have followed the efforts of Left Labor Zionism and worked their way up in Israel and establish a Jewish state with the efforts of a Jewish working class by illustrating true merit and worth rather than simply appealing to powerful nations. If the Zionist movement supported peace Israel and Palestine would not be in the state they are now. 3. Do you want to know why they don't do that? They hold ideas of dignity, however abhorrent the extremist methods are, that will never allow them to give up on regaining their homes or submit to oppression and corruption, a mission that will continue until a solution arises. However misguided and unjust the oil rich countries are in their policies of extremist and violent efforts, they are all trying to regain a form of Arab honor, not exterminate the Jews. They fight the Israeli government because it wages war and oppresses. One could say something similar about Israel. Maybe the act of putting these Palestinians into ghastly tent villages is the cause of the hatred and violence. You keep telling me how the Muslims are sick monsters, but what about your Israel? What about the Israeli government, the one that ever so frequently engages in acts of aggression and neglects opportunities to support peace? They don't have to seek to force the Palestinian population into prototypical unpeople. They don't have to so disgustingly put their own people in mortal danger. They could stop pouring funds into war and build nice Israeli homes, hospitals, and schools. They don't have to seek to oppress and kill any Palestinians who stand in their way. Israel could support human progress but it doesn't. Why does the government make "pally squatters" out of Arabs? Why doesn't the Israeli government attempt to support a peaceful two state settlement, respect international law and peace agreements, and attempt to cooperate and actually solve problems and not merely inflame them? The answer; power hungry aggressive nationalism. They will oppress and kill any Palestinians who stand in their way. Apply the same standards to your side as you do for others. Arab hatred of Israel does not have to exist; it is a country hated due to its policy.
