Majority rights

Discussion in 'Civil Liberties' started by Polydectes, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Why are majority rights always sacrificed for the minority?

    A trans woman has the right to use the women's restroom the must oblige.

    A minority wants someone to make them a specific item they do not wish to make. The maker must lose rights in order to afford new rights to the minority.

    Why is this? Nobody cares about the rights of the majority almost like because there are more of them their rights don't matter.
     
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  2. Captain Obvious

    Captain Obvious Active Member

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    It’s not so much a majority/ minority thing. It’s because we are bullied into victim sanctioning. The more oppressed, victimized a person (or group) is, the more public pressure to relieve them of that oppression no matter how false.
     
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  3. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is more oppressed than the majority. People say you get all of the brakes because you look like the ruling class but you're not really in class so you get none of the brakes from either side.

    The majority is the easiest one to beat up on because they're simply more of them.
     
  4. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    So you should be allowed to be fired because of your sexual orientation.
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Well you don't have a right to a job so that's really up to the employer isn't it?
     
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  6. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Nope, against the law. The employer can be sued by the EEOC.
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the size of the company
     
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  8. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Democracy without minority rights is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Minority rights are absolutely vital to society.

    Where they run up against majority rights, there is often an issue highlighted that can be fixed for everyone.

    Good example. Bathrooms should not be gender segregated. Stalls should allow privacy to individuals who want it.

    Those cases often go too far, be the principle is sound. You shouldn't be allowed to refuse service based on mere bigotry. That also goes for the religious who want to become pharmacists, etc.

    That's not true. The rights of the one (ultimate minority) are sometimes sacrificed for the rights of the many. So much so that it's become a common saying.

    Yes. It's actually a good instinct but we need to be careful with it. NOBODY should be mistreated due to race, gender, etc, and that includes those in the majority.
     
  9. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    that's just democracy. My country is a republic the thing with majority rights is they don't exist you just get the standard rights everyone else gets and you have to sacrifice for the special rights of minorities.

    That is an untenable situation it will breed contempt
    but why do minorities need special rights I think they should have the same rights everyone else does


    this is the kind of thing I'm talking about you have no right to a bathroom that does not exist. Rights are limits on the government. That is not a rights issue at all.

    That's an issue of architecture and mostly fire code.


    why should anybody be compelled to provide anybody else any kind of service? That slavery you don't have the right to someone else's labor.

    Rights are negative in nature their freedom from the things not freedom to things.


    when you say rights are you actually talking about rights are you talking about entitlement to someone else's labor or the ability to dictate how someone designs their bathrooms? Those aren't right so you don't have a right to any of that and you shouldn't.

    What minorities are ever asked to sacrifice rights that's not a thing I have never heard of not letting someone speak because there's just not as many people like them. Or seizing someone's property without a warrant because there's fewer people of that religion.

    You're talking about accommodations not rights. Rights are the things listed in the Constitution.


    But people are all the time it is not just customary to discriminate against people on the basis of their sex it's compelled by law and some instances
     
  10. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Because we don't want to tolerate bigots and have service denied to people due to bigotry. That's democracy in action. Its how most want things. If you don't like it, you are free to leave the country. You also free to try to get people to vote to change and turn back time to when blatant racist discrimination was tolerated, or even encouraged if that's your thing.

    Personally I think it is a good thing, but want it to be applied fairly regardless of race, or gender or sexual orientation. White and Asian people should not be discriminated against for being White or Asian either.

    Yes, and THAT is wrong. Laws should be against gender discrimination, not only against gender discrimination when it is done to women.

    A good case of a law that should be changed is here in Ontario. We have a Pay Equity Act that literally says that female work must be paid AT LEAST as well as male work.

    This came to my workplace and I had to put our company through a process to determine:

    1. What gender of work each job in the company is. This is blatantly sexist. I literally had to call some things men's work and other women's work.
    2. Ensure that women's work is paid AT LEAST AS WELL as men's work. Note those words... At least as well. They don't care if its paid better. They care only that the women's work is paid as well as the men's, not that the men's is paid as well as the women's.

    This is sexist and it should be changed, and I have pushed to make that happen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  11. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Not true.
     
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who we is but you don't own people's businesses so you don't get to dictate that sort of thing.
    no that's communism. To act like the businesses that operate in your vicinity are the property of the government and therefore must or whatever customers the government dictates is exactly how Communism works.
    no it isn't how our country works and it never has been. You don't get to vote for who must serve you that's not how it works it's not how it ever worked. As I said earlier that's communism.
    so an Asian restaurant that hires only Asian waiters should be shut down?


    was promote gender discrimination they have since the founding of the country
    in Canada do fathers have the right to opt out of Parenthood before the child's born?
    The gender pay Gap is a myth.
     
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  13. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Yes true
     
  14. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    As they say, size doesn't matter......
    Filing A Charge of Discrimination
    With the EEOC
    If you believe that you have been discriminated against at work because of your race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, gender identity, and sexual orientation), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information, you can file a Charge of Discrimination. A charge of discrimination is a signed statement asserting that an employer, union or labor organization engaged in employment discrimination. It requests EEOC to take remedial action.
     
  15. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Yes we do. We do indeed get to control that sort of thing. We get to enact many different laws that regulate businesses; laws that disallow slavery, laws that disallow fraud, laws that require safety precautions, laws demanding taxes, and many others.

    If you want to live where you can run a business with no laws and no regulations, it seems you chose the wrong one to live in.

    No. Communism is when the government owns and controls the means of production completely. You are allowed to make many choices for your business and you are allowed to keep most of the profit for yourself.

    Not unless you mean by not having sex, or by getting snipped, no.

    That depends on what you mean by gender pay gap. Such a gap does exist, but it isn't for the same jobs and same experience and hours etc. It is mostly because of life priorities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    If the business employees less than 50 people it is outside of federal jurisdiction.
     
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I'm not talking about safety or laws against fraud.

    Saying we have laws regarding that so we can make up whatever crazy laws we want for no reason isn't rational.

    You aren't entitled to someone else's labor.
    Laws should make sense.


    If the government dictates who you can do business with how is that not assuming ownership over a business?
    You're allowed to? The government allows you? Do you know what ownership is?


    So your country as a matter of law discriminates on the basis of sex. But it's okay because they're just men.




    No it depends on how honest you are about it.
    That's an earnings gap. If you don't earn as much as someone else that's not because of pay.
     
  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    You aren't entitled to operate company in a particular industry. And if you do, you have to follow the laws that industry has to follow within your country.

    Not what I say, but it is a messed up law we have that I am working to change.

    It is pay if you are an employee.
     
  19. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    This isn't an argument that the laws are correct just that you may be punished for not following them.

    You really should understand what you are arguing against


    I can't do the same thing for a law I find to be messed up?


    If they pay you the same dollar amount per hour but you work fewer hours no it isn't. It's you not working as much. That's the improperly named pay Gap.

    If you could pay women less that's all that would be hired.
     
  20. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    I'm arguing against allowing people to act on bigotry and deny their service on that basis alone, yes. And I find your compelled-labour argument completely unconvincing. You don't have to work the industry at all. You don't have to be active in it at any particular level. But if you do, then we make it so you can't deny a client you'd otherwise have taken on if not for their race.

    I'm sorry if you don't like that, but that's just how we're going to make it. And no, it isn't slavery or compelled labour. You need not enter the industry at all. Nobody is forcing you to.

    Yes, you can do the same. Are you?

    If you say so. That's not what others call it. As I said, it depends on what you mean by the phrase.

    Yup.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  21. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    that's just about every business that exists.
    your argument is equally applied in the opposite side

    Customer does not have to use the services or by the goods that someone provides at all. We can easily go to a competitor.

    My argument is that this is anti-frame market and it is.
    don't forget they can they can just lie about the reason. For instance but say someone is a mechanic and a Jewish person asks them to fix their car and he didn't want to do business with the Jewish person he didn't say he doesn't have the garage space right now. Can't force people to be nice. How to say let people be honest about it and maybe they'll go out of business.
    no you're not again people can just lie. For instance I'm a welder. If I apply for a job and they know I'm gay and they don't want any gay men working for them I think I just say I'm not qualified for the position or they had a better applicant.

    You can't control people's thoughts so this is just lip service.


    yes. I'm arguing about uselessness and since you exposed it the attempt to control people's thoughts regarding business practices.


    if others are calling it a pay Gap they're being dishonest.
    pay is how much your employer offers you earnings is how much you earn.


    So the pay gap is a myth
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  22. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I guess size does matter, but it's 15.....but if you are fired for your homosexuality and you can prove it, it is still against federal law and maybe the ACLU will pick up your case. Don't give up.
     
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  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Most employers employ under 15 people.

    Proving it would be difficult.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
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  24. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Sure. What does that have to do with the above though?

    Did you mean anti free market? Yes, it is a restriction on free market. All regulations are. Can you imagine a completely free market with no rules or regulations at all? That would be anarchy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2022
  25. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Gender pay gap is real. Female hookers earn a LOT MORE than gigalos.
     

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