Make all drugs legal; stop the myths~

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by RevAnarchist, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so you cannot offer ANY evidence of harm that is a direct result of the war on drugs!
     
  2. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't believe drug lords, cartels, and gangs cause harm?
     
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  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    They do, but what's the evidence that they exist as a result of the war on drugs?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Good points. Some other things to consider as Oregon moves forward: ‘Magic mushroom’ therapy may interact with other medicines. “Alternative” therapies have their own risks, interactions, and side effects. Those aren’t just limited to approved drugs."

    I don't use drugs and I wouldn't if they were legal, I do tend to allowing adults to do as they wish so long as they aren't harming others, but, I'm generally skeptical of the claims that recreational drugs are "medicine" and figure the person that wants to use them should simply honestly state that they want to get high. But, I was talking to psychiatrists that run a drug rehab center, and they claimed that uses of mushrooms and other natural psychedelics in therapy are the real. Essentially the claimed that breakthroughs that require years of regular sessions are being obtained in one or a few "guided trips." They were very clear that this was not to be attempted alone, but, with an experienced guide.

    They specifically spoke of breakthroughs on addiction and PTSD. And I got the impression that this was few experiences, not an ongoing lifestyle of use.

    The attached article runs through the dangers of mixing this stuff with other drugs they are already using.
     
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  5. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am also sceptical of medical claims on cannabis, and I say this as a regular smoker.

    People say it has no health consequences but that is demonstrably untrue.

    Tobacco is not harmful because of nicotine, its harmful because you're inhaling burnt plant matter. The same is true for cannabis, unless you're vaporising it or using edibles.

    It definitely has SOME medical uses though. For people with a lack of appetite it's pretty indisputably useful.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  6. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    In my early twenties I use magic mushrooms very many times, very heavy doses as well.

    While the intoxicating effects were sometimes pleasurable...... I would say that was not a drug that encouraged repeated use for recreation.

    Some of the experiences were downright horrifying.

    Though I like to get high at the time, I believe my motivation was somewhat deeper. I was a confused individual finding my way in this world and I wanted answers. And even though those answers were very uncomfortable I kept seeking them.

    Now if you want to talk about addictive recreational drugs cocaine probably tops that list.


    I have to rob my mama for some more shroom money... Said no one ever
     
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  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Now I just drink more beer than I should and smell reefer when other people smoke it primarily...lol.

    Used to smoke marijuana like cigarettes but it just doesn't really appeal to me that much anymore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  8. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I think it is absolute insanity that cocaine and methamphetamine are scheduled to controlled substances while psilocybin mushrooms are schedule 1.
     
  9. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cocaine is a hell of a drug. I had it in South Africa where it was $40 per gram. Not much beats cocaine for a good mate's wedding.

    I haven't had it since and don't plan to. Anything that good can't be fun if you get addicted to it. O was up 60 hours before getting on the plane home, and wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone.

    I used shrooms for a similar purpose to you. Don't think I'll do psychedelics again but it was worth the experience.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  10. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    My 20's included some experiences like that as well. There was a point in college when I was talking Algebra, Chemistry, Biology and Zoology all at the same time, struggling with all of them, and one weekend we decided to trip on some shrooms and I had the most amazing experience, I was struggling with these classes, my mind was churning on them, but more as jumbled confusing mess. During that trip, I had a flash of insight, it all sorted out and organized I suddenly understood the underpinnings of all of them, especially algebra and chemistry. Not long later I realized if I just left my mind alone and dropped all mind altering substances, that everything worked better and that became my pattern, but, the break through I had remained.

    Anyway, if this can help folks, I hope it does, but for me, coffee and non alcoholic beer does the trick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Several US States have tried this and one main selling point was that it would get the cartels out of the drug supply, but, they very much remain a major factor.
     
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  12. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I hear you. At the peak of a mushroom chip you are sitting on top of a high place and looking down upon it all.... You have seen beyond the veil and into the inner workings of reality itself...

    But invariably as soon as the trip wears off it is as though amnesia sets in... Being a stubborn son of a b**** I repeated The experience repeatedly.

    I think it was overall beneficial but it was a tough road to travel.

    I still drink more beer than I should and smoke cigarettes but what the hell man has to have some vices or I wouldn't trust them! Lol.

    And there are those puritanical sorts that would call your non-alcoholic beer and coffee vices.... So you're in the good man
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
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  13. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everyone's got something. Even Jesus himself couldn't resist turning some of that boring water into beautiful wine!
     
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  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the longest person to ever have lived was a smoker

    it's not the smoking that is an issue, it's the excessive smoking, just like excessive exposure to the sun, ect...
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    look at Einstein, looking in a mirror wondering if he would be able to see his reflection if he was going the speed of light..... hmmmm

    I, too, think drugs can be beneficial if used responsibly, but they can also be harmful if abused
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  16. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not the easiest thing to only do every now and then. I've tried.

    Switching to vaping of both nicotine and cannabis is a great move.
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    for many that is true, yet many can do it

    just got to be careful on the vaping that they are pure ingredients

    like the people that sold the marijuana vapes with vitamin E oil

    "Vaping illness 'breakthrough' points to vitamin E oil as a cause, CDC says"

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vapi...-points-vitamin-e-oil-cause-cdc-says-n1078781
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  18. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With cannabis there is no such concern, you just put the bud directly in the vape like you would the bong.

    With nicotine it always pays to get reputable ingredients, you are right.
     
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  19. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    The interactions, cited in the article you linked for me, were interactions with other antidepressants. First off, there are interactions among different types of antidepressants, already-- like between SSRIs and MAOIs. But still are both used; doctors & pharmacists hopefully just pay attention to the contraindications, though I feel it is best for any patient to check the prescription information, for themselves.

    Anyway, my point being that, since anti depressants require prescriptions, there is only a danger of interactions, if one conceals their use of psilocybin, from their doctors; and the only reason that patients would be likely to do this, is because magic mushrooms are illegal. So, if we dropped the bullschitt laws, against this completely safe substance, that would eliminate cause for concern over unexpected interactions.

    However, most "antidepressants," don't work all that well, to begin with. They are overly- hyped, as insuring wellness, but nothing of the sort is true. Two out of three people on antidepressants, still have symptoms of depression. And these "wonder drugs," unlike mushrooms, have a long list of their own, negative side effects, just from their own use, even without needing to be combined with some other product. So it is very possible that one who found psilocybin to be helpful, might no longer need take prescription antidepressants. If you were to read the medical info about these drugs, as in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) you will see that all the antidepressants start off, saying that they are really not sure how their drug works-- and this is the more trustable, "scientific," approach? The wording, under "Method of Action," is usually something like, "it is not known how (drug X) improves mood, but it is thought that certain chemicals in the brain affect emotions, and (drug X) may help in balancing those brain chemicals." Translation: we found something that affects some chemicals which we have a primitive idea, are involved in our moods, & emotional health; so take some of this, to mess with whatever's going on in your head, right now, and maybe the result will be an improvement.

    The admonition about natural products being a cause for worry, frankly, is what the drug community says about everything that they can't patent and control, for profit. Not that it isn't true, that some natural products can be dangerous, but the indiscriminate charges of this, from the medical establishment, has really worn their credibility very thin, on the subject. They are too often speaking on the nutritive side of things, from a place of ignorance, or at least of pretense, that they know more than they truly do.

    On the subject of mushrooms, by the way, while they are generally done in sufficient quantity to produce a "psychedelic trip," (which does not require all that much), nevertheless, I have read one author who believes they were part of early man's diet, but eaten in only small quantities. Whether or not there is any anthropological truth to this, it highlights the possibility that someone who uses this, medicinally, for mental well-being, rather than needing to trip out, on a regular basis, could gain benefit from taking a small amount every day, akin to taking a pill, which might only produce subtle, but beneficial, effects.
     
  20. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You should see what I can do! I can turn beer into urine in about 45 minutes! All day long!
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That's funny! In some crowds I'm appreciated as the Designated Driver, which frees the rest to get good and hammered, and in other crowds I get exactly the self-righteous horse **** you describe, at which point I confirm in a friendly manner that they can see which fingers are sticking up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
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  22. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Good point on the pill companies. They can't patent a natural substance. And my understanding is that those who have successfully undergone this treatment and had the breakthroughs, toss all those prescriptions away, presumably for a life time.

    Anyway, Oregon is going first. We'll all know more after some time to observe them.
     
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  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, which was a heavy oral tobacco user, nicotine seems to restrict the ability of my arteries to expand during heavy exercise, so limited my ability to exercise really hard, and elevated my heart rate a great deal if I tried to push through it. And, once I finally quit it for good, my resting heart rate dropped and my ability to exercise hard greatly improved. I don't know if I'm typical, but that was my experience, that, and the pictures of post surgery for oral cancers were always a concern.
     
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  24. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Are you willing to be financially liable for the effects of making Fentanyl legal?
     
  25. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    When I had cancer, I started growing medicinal pot, one plant at a time.

    I do a coconut oil extract which then gets put into pills.

    No smoking, and only a small amount of THC. I use it to get to sleep. My wife will eventually have to have her hips replaced. In the meantime, 2 pills lets her get to sleep. She is miserable without them.

    I am not a doctor, and I am not going to make any claims. But I would hate to have to live without medicinal pot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022

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