Man in UK jailed for "rape" for poking hole in condom

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by kazenatsu, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Men do it all the time. They'll flash a wallet stuffed with money, to give the impression they are rich. They might lie about their career.
    If a woman sleeps with him then, has she been deceived?
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't get it. It shouldn't matter.

    She consented to sex, and that is a parcel deal. Sort of comes along with everything else.

    She shouldn't have some special rights to details like that unless she specifically negotiated them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
    Robert likes this.
  3. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well why didn't you blurt out up front you only defend English law.
     
  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am still the same person I was when studying law in college. Sorry it bugs you.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    More information on rape in England and how crazy it has become.

    Lawrance, previously of Leicestershire, went on to be convicted of raping Sally twice - because they'd had sex two times - in a case with no known precedent in the UK.

    "Section 74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 says a person consents if he or she agrees by choice and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice," said Sue Matthews, the senior crown prosecutor who put the case together. "By lying about the vasectomy he deprived that particular victim of making an informed choice."

    "If these convictions are upheld on appeal, the concern is that members of the public, both male and female, who have never been considered criminals in the eyes of the law will be at risk of prosecution for serious sexual offences," said Lawrance's solicitor Shaun Draycott.

    Lawrance is far from alone in deceiving a sexual partner to get sex. So could others who do this now face prosecution?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-49127545
     
    kazenatsu likes this.
  6. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes she is, here is a radical idea, men do not deceive women into having sex with them. A shocker I know but it is possible!
     
  7. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No she consented to protected sex, here are the two questions you refuse to answer.

     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you okay with the idea of prosecuting transsexuals for tricking men to get in bed with them?
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Women also do it. Women say, I am safe this time of month. Blurt out later, I want your baby. I had it happen to me several times in my life. I did not prosecute the women for it.
     
    kazenatsu likes this.
  10. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This happened in the UK, incredible try reading the OP!
    Few things bug me more than those who defend rapists, quite true!
     
  11. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Utterly irrelevant, but quite comical how you equate the two!
     
  12. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wow the things you admit to doing in order to get sex, ever thought of contraception?
     
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If the man refuses to admit that he tricked her, should we automatically take the woman's word for it?

    How should that work when deciding whether to prosecute?

    The police may find evidence proving that she willingly went to bed with him, that actually fairly often happens in some of these false rape accusation cases, but proving that he was the one who poked holes in the condom is much harder.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  14. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Irrelevant to this case,(he did admit it) how about answering the question?
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It seems to me these cases might only ever get prosecuted when the man admits what he did.

    Which is stupid.

    And if I was such a man, even though I might believe I deserved punishment, maybe I would still refuse to admit that I did what I did, knowing that (in my mind at least) I would likely get much more punishment than I deserved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  16. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And still no answer to two simple questions, I wonder why?

    Did she consent to unprotected sex?

    Are you suggesting that if she had known that the condom had been tampered with whilst she was having sex that is not exactly what she would of said,
    No,no get the **** out of me?
     
  17. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hopefully. What part of "do not deceive another person in order to obtain consent" are you struggling with?
     
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't believe she has to consent to all aspects of the sex. I believe it is enough that she consented to sex, and does not say to stop. (Assuming she is conscious and awake, of course, and is capable of communicating)

    Her rights to consent to specific reproductive issues are not entirely non-existent, but they are in no way comparable to the issue of sexual consent itself (assuming basic sexual consent is there).
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  19. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh it is far more than this me you refer to when you say you.

    One would expect this case mentioned here to be appealed.
     
  20. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What part of "do not deceive another person in order to obtain consent" are you struggling with?
     
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    would a woman get the same if she lied about being on birth control?

    this is not rape, though I do think it should be a crime

    this cheapens what rape is and is an insult to real rape victims imo
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
  22. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The case should be appealed.

    Notice that the other side is not producing the actual law, but just the press report. The article alleges he confessed to rape. That definitely is not over a pricked condom, but his confession.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He confessed to rape and that is not about condoms. Will you produce english law or just your own personal belief?
     
  24. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I struggle with you, not law. When he confessed to rape, do you mean pricked condoms or his confession?
     
  25. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    113
    At least you are being honest, when you say that not all aspects of sex has to be consensual I have never seen that admitted to before.

    Now about the shouting stop.

    Are you suggesting that if she had known that the condom had been tampered with whilst she was having sex that is not exactly what she would of said,
    No,no get the **** out of me?
     

Share This Page