Mandatory Australian children vaccinations

This is the reason why I always said mandatory/forced vaccination of Australian children was a BAD idea, and should never be allowed.

We simple can no longer trust scientists; doctors or pharmaceutical companies with out health.

http://wakeup-world.com/2016/06/22/...ecade-forced-release-incriminating-documents/

 

I don't support mandatory vaccinations at all, even though I was personally vaccinated and will likely do the same with any kids I have.

I think if you take their argument to the logical extreme we'll have to treat the infectious as aggressors. I'm quite surprised we don't already do that to be honest, with the way the bureaucracy is these days.

I don't fall for any of the anti-vac stuff, but to each their own.

 

I suppose its worrying that you are not concerned that children's vaccines have now been positively linked to autism & neurodevelopment disorders.

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I suppose its worrying that you are not concerned that children's vaccines have now been positively linked to autism & neurodevelopment disorders.

 

I have heard just as strong opinions from the other side saying that's nonsense. I am no expert in this area, therefore I reserve judgment.

I am unconcerned either way. It's your family. Except in the absolute most egregious of circumstances, I feel it should be left to the family.

Lest we start imprisoning those who don't want their terminally ill kids to spend their remaining few years in the agony of chemo for a few percent increase in survival odds. Lest we imprison parents who smack. Lest we imprison parents who homeschool their kids. Lest we imprison those who don't simply surrender every area of their parenting to the state.

The onus on the state should be almost impossibly difficult to meet.

That said, I'm relatively open minded, so if you can convince me then so be it.

 

I believe its fairly conclusive with the link I provided, that some vaccinations given to children were known to be dangerous, and proved to have caused autism and neurodevelopment disorders.

Over the last fifteen years there has been a massive spike in normal children suddenly being inflicted with different degrees of autism and neurodevelopment disorders. Many parents of these children and anti-vaccine groups always suspected the rise in child vaccinations as the major cause. Especially when you considered all of the previously normal health children suddenly effected with autism and neurodevelopment disorders were given flu vaccinations. Many of the parents of these children and many doctors attempted to challenge the dangers of these pharmaceutical vaccines in court, but successfully winning a challenge against a multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical drug company.

These people always knew that children’s flu vaccinations was the “smoking gun” and with the release of more medical research documents under the freedom of information, they are finally rewarded with the truth they have been waiting for.

Everyone condemned these people as conspiracy theorists, but its nice to see the truth about the dangers of mainstream pharmaceutical medicine finally being told to the public.

My mind keeps coming back to the definition of the word vaccination:

“Vaccination is the administration of antigenic material to stimulate an individual immune system to develop adaptive immunity to a pathogen”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination

You notice the key words - adaptive immunity to pathogens.

It then begs the question. If flu vaccines really work as per its definition, then why does everyone need a flu vaccination every year?

 

The so called smart people of the world (COUGHS) are so bored now they own everything, that they have resorted to seeing how many sneaky ways they can kill us and give us illness's. Its their new power trip. They even go as far to make it law that you and your kids are their ginnie pigs ..how sweet nice and caring of them all. yes they are the aggressors alright, they are the enemy.

 

Hmm,
interesting but very difficult subject.
While I believe some vaccinations should be a must, I also believe their is quite some money to be made by the pharma industry......
For example, the flu virus is changing every five minutes, no point in vaccinating this one. ...
Regards

 

Question: What if we were talking about mandatory forced vaccinations of adults?
Would the debate be any different then?
Would everyone be ok with government forcing people to be injected with something?

 

You think that giving the body a weak version of an illness is a good way for the body to build anti bodies to fight off the full blown version??. Ummm nope...this actually weakens our immune system. Avoiding bugs and bacteria by making sure everything is clean, weakens our immune system.

I had my shots when I was very very young, i have no idea what they were for. I have never had measles, chicken pox, or any such illness. I refused shots later on at Intermediate school...never had Tetanus yet had all kinds of dirty rusty objects slice me open. I have had the flu maybe 3 times in the last 20 years (I dont get flu shots)..I dont get colds, Ive not seen my doc in something like 25 years ( seen the doc a handful of times my whole life for mechanical injuries). I grew up on a farm...drank raw cows milk, real cream, home made butter, ate rabbits, pigs, deer..all full of bugs and god knows what else. Its this I believe that has lead to my good health and strong immune system. Oh and I have 3 years of sick leave up my sleeve lol.

 

This is my way of thinking. If vaccines work the way they are suppose to work. Then there should be no need for "herd mentality" forced vaccinations. It should the individuals right to decided "if" they want vaccinations.

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No difference in my opinion. It should be the individuals choice.

 

The autism/vaccination myth has been debunked again and again, parents who don't vaccinate their children are very irresponsible, not only towards their own children but other children who end up in hospital critically ill.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/family-child/vancouver+island+urges+vaccination+sick+baby+girl/12003830/story.html

This 2015 study on 95 000 children.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/04/22/4221393.htm

 

Have you not read this link?

http://wakeup-world.com/2016/06/22/...ecade-forced-release-incriminating-documents/

 

I clicked on the link, went to the about page and noticed it was a blog by Ryan and Andy from the east coast, then didn’t bother to read it.

But after your reply I did go back and read it, the Author Carolanne Wright a Naturopath refers to some very old studies.

There are no Thiomersal used in vaccines for children in Australia for the past 16 years now with the exception of Hep B which btw is not a mandatory vaccine.

http://www.ncirs.edu.au/assets/provider_resources/fact-sheets/thiomersal-fact-sheet.pdf

Now Methylmercury is in the top ten toxins believed to be the cause of Autism so her concerns are not unwarranted if it were still used in vaccines.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120425140118.htm

However numerous studies found no direct link between Thiomersal and Autism

2007 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070516071735.htm

2008 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080107181551.htm

(you’ll notice the use of the word primary, so they concede it could contribute)

2009 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008131852.htm

The truth is they are still stabbing in the dark,

7 June 2016

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160607151254.htm

31 March 2016

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160331105724.htm

11 May 2016

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160511105352.htm

6 June 2012

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120606193853.htm

4 April 2011

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110404161815.htm

There are about 1000 genes linked to Autism and you only need to mutate one to get the disorder.
In my opinion Thiomersal could very well contribute to Autism however the disorder is so complex, it’s likely the genetic mutations that lead to Autism is caused by the compounding effect of environmental toxins, pharmaceuticals, genetic predispose, polluted air, preservatives and toxins in food etc etc.

Therefore this compounding effect is the reason why studies focusing on one toxin at a time is really not showing any results.

As far as Vaccines go, they are vital in keeping children safe from illnesses like whooping cough, measles, rubella, polio etc diseases that kill and maim our babies and children at their most vulnerable stages. I believe our exposure to a polluted environment, pharmaceuticals, polluted air and food to be far more of a risk for autism than the vaccines.

 

Because influenza has many different strains.

Here's links to articles debunking the link between autism and vaccinations. I've only copied and pasted the first page of the search :


https://www.autismspeaks.org/scienc...ms-no-association-between-vaccines-and-autism


(*)http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

(*)http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...-autism-rate-rising-vaccines-caused-vaccines/

(*)http://www.poison.org/articles/2010-oct/vaccines-do-not-cause-autism

(*)https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/vaccines-and-autism/

(*)http://m.cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

(*)http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/04/22/4221393.htm

(*)http://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccine-myths-debunked/

(*)http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/04/22/3650089/massive-study-autism-vaccine/


Many of the articles above will fill you in on the man who started the myth and his reasons for doing so (hint- he did it for money). His name is Andrew Wakefield and he used to be a medical doctor and researcher, but the BMA revoked his license for fraudulent science - specfically fabricating links between vaccines and autism. Here's a link to his wikipedia page:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

I'm not old enough to remember children with polio, but I certainly remember disabled adults who contracted polio as children.

My ex-husband contracted encephalitis from measles as a child. He spent weeks in hospital, much of it comatose, and it stunted his growth. His brothers and father were all tall, powerfully built men- even his mother was tall and muscley - but my ex-husband is around 5' 9" and very slight. The weeks in a coma destroyed his teeth, too.

Here's a link to an article about measles and encephalitis:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/sspe-a-deadly-and-not-that-rare-complication-of-measles/

A friend's 5 year old son wasn't able to be vaccinated for health reasons and contracted whooping cough (pertussis)when he was a toddler. It's called whooping cough because that's the sound the child makes as it fights to breathe- "WHOOP!...WHOOP! ...WHOOP!" - face red, eyes wide and bugged and terrified like the child is choking to death because the child CAN'T BREATHE!

I'd hoped I'd never hear that sound again or see children and adults disabled by polio or die from measles encephalitis but it seems I will.



Off topic, but I'm genuinely curious: do individuals who distrust the science on vaccination safety distrust the science on climate change, too?

 

They won't hear you Scarlet Witch. It's become an article of faith- like religion and Neoliberalism.

If you offer the science you're just told the scientists are in bed with Big Pharma and lying. That's why I keep asking if they think the scientists are lying about climate change, too. I have personal aquaintance with a few anti-vaxxers who acknowledge climate change is real. It's always seemed peculiar cognitive dissonance to me.


Don't stop trying to convince them to vaccinate though. I won't. As my longer post says, I've seen what these so-called minor childhood illnesses can do and I don't want to see the mongrel things return because 10% believe discredited, fraudulent science and myth. If only 5% of the 10% vaccinate, herd immunity will return.

 

Conspiracy theories. Based on some two is bull(*)(*)(*)(*) on the Internet. Unfortunately at the moment I am posting from my iPhone and a full analysis of the crap will have to wait

 

No conspiracies needed to argue this topic.

Since some people are vulnerable to vaccination and herd immunity does not require everyone to be vaccinated, it should be left to parent choice until such time the medical establishment screen's for that vulnerability to ensure those vulnerable are not harmed through any government sponsored vaccination program, let alone an enforced mandatory one!!!!!

The fact is some kids have a hyperactive immune response (they have more, and more active, monocytes) and that the medical establishment does not screen for this currently, or probably other types of vulnerabilities.

In the meantime, just offer a more stretched out vaccination program so that the parents can elect that their kid gets only one vaccine at a time and with more recovery time inbetween shots. Currently, they give multivaccines shots only a couple of months apart - its a huge load on a kids immune system. No wonder some suffer serious reactions. If the parents had this choice the Gov might get more ppl vaccinating, who otherwise might have tried skipping it.

 

Cost benefit. The cost of adverse reactions,which are rare, versus the benefit of not contracting these lethal or debilitating diseases should be a no brainer. If you want to see raw data on adverse outcomes of vaccines go to the CDc website. They collect everything including traffic accidents that happen within a certain time frame following vaccination

As for spa I g them out. Just what do you think the compliance rate would be?

 

I personally believe the 75 independent studies done linking thiomersol in children's vaccination to autism and certain neurodevelopment disorders is conclusive.

However, if you require more than 75 independent studies to convince you otherwise, then that is your prerogative.

 

Spoken like a true corporate machine.... the beauty of the socialist lie is the inhumanity of its systematization. The intention of the health system is not the community ideal first, but the community of individuals. Experience of 'life' is done at an individual level and so the concept of community only exists as a category of that, and as such the intention of these systems needs to always be the patients experience first. The reality is, some kids react badly, even fatally, to vaccination and therefore any mandated system run by the government should be optional until such time measures exist to protect those individuals. The gov can reward, promote and research it as much as it can afford but it should not victimize, bully and punish those who have what might be completely legitimate concerns for the welfare of their child. It is the primary job of a parent, and government should only interfere with that when it is 100% sure it is for the benefit of the child. The public service needs to remember its place as servants of the people and not the other way around. I know its a disease in the public service, they are so used to a relatively stable job, and archaic organization structure and function that they become lazy and self serving - but they should not confuse that with best practice and their actual role in community.

 

You have to apply simple logic to this. If vaccinations worked, then people wouldn't need a flu shot every year.

Regardless of different strains of flu. Obviously these flu vaccinations are not developed to provide the human immune system with adaptive immunity against the pathogens they are vaccinated against.

“Vaccination is the administration of antigenic material to stimulate an individual immune system to develop adaptive immunity to a pathogen”.

Pathogen: Typically the term is used to describe an infectious agent such as a virus, bacterium, prion, a fungus, or even another micro-organism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen

 

Different measures of adaption. Don't you think the conspiracy theories are counterproductive to what should be a simple issue of 'care' for the vulnerable from a system intended to care for the vulnerable?

 

Trying to keep measles from makin' a comeback...

Italy makes 12 vaccinations compulsory for children
Fri, 19 May 2017 - The government is trying to combat a huge rise in measles cases as parents shun immunisation.

 

Flu viruses evolve and change, therefore the flu which you had last year won't be the same as the one you get next time. That is why the vaccine is different each year.
The adaptive immune system, also known as the acquired immune system or, more rarely, as the specific immune system, is a subsystem of the overall immune system that is composed of highly specialized, systemic cells and processes that eliminate pathogens or prevent their growth.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...nity&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari

 

Where is your Evidence Based Practice? EBP guides what all medicine does. It is based on metanalysis and systematic reviews

Do not pass off crap from a turd site on the internet as evidence of dick

I think the others have rebutted you beautifully but bottom lines are this -

A) if Autism were truly linked with vaccines why have we not seen CONSISTENT reports from all around the world. Vaccines are given to children world wide which in includes a lot of third world countries

B) Although vaccines can and sometimes do have adverse effects (unexpected allergies, etc ) the alternative, to go back to prevaccine medicine is far far far worse

Ever seen a case of Tetanus? How about Whooping Cough? Post measles Encephalitis?

Even the lesser impacting issues of cervical cancer or latter life Shingles

These things are now RARE thanks to vaccines