Mandatory wipers

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Maquiscat, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I prefer crank windows.

    How do you know which car has electric windows? It is the parked car with a window down and it is raining. Electric windows NEVER go out when the window is up.

    Never heard of anyone having to spend $400 to repair a window crank. Hundreds of thousands of people have to fix an electric window.
     
  2. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    As an electrician I can tell you that a simple cheap relay will suffice over any electronics and last much longer. You're playing a slippery slope fallacy and quite hysterically at that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, lights should turn on automatically when wipers are used.
     
  4. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They do not use "simple cheap relays." Electronics have to met specific federal standards, plus meet OBD requirements. You are over a decade behind in posting about "simple relays." You might as well be posting about "simple carburetors" in relation to new cars as equally not relevant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  5. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    The OP is a libertarian thank you very much. And yes this very much fits in with the philosophy, in that this isn't about one's own personal safety, but that of others. The purpose of requiring headlights in the rain is not so you can see, but so that others can see you. If I can't see you because you don't have your headlights on, then your actions have a greater chance at harming me. Frankly, I could care less if what you do increases your chance at self harm. That is your risk to take with yourself. But it is wrong to put others at higher risks of harm through your actions or lack thereof. Personally I don't support mandatory helmet laws for bikers of any level, pedal or motor. Your lack of helmet does no harm to others. And that makes the key difference. Liberals try to save you from yourself. Libertarians look to protect others from you, but allow you self harm, if you desire or are willing to risk it. So take your hysterical slippery slope fallacy and peddle it elsewhere.
     
  6. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    There are still plenty of basic non electronic electrical parts in cars. You do realize that electrical and electronics, while related, are two separate things, right?
     
  7. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  8. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't know much about NEW cars, do you? What do you drive - and what have you repaired or had repaired?

    One of our vehicles, new price nearly $200K, has 17 computers. It's been parked, not running, for nearly 2 years. due to unwilling to spend more on computer replacement. Another, $80K, has been towed in 6 times for computer issues that prevented it from starting. NONE had to do with mechanical function of the vehicle. Rather, things like the auto trunk closer, which also is an auto opener. If the computer falsely registers it open, it prevents starting the car. Or we will come out in the morning to a soaked trunk because in the middle of the night the computer opened the truck for some reason. The water then causes a fault signal, so again it won't start. OH, but it protects people from someone driving around with their truck open and something could fly out.

    I already gave the example of people locked in their cars - can't open the door and can't roll down the window to get out - because of a safety feature someone bragged off above, you can't open a door unless a car is in park. Of course, this also means if you end up somehow in deep water, the car is going to drown you deciding that better you drown than get out of the car into the water.

    Auto headlights on with wipers on, means with certainty people driving on the highway, wipers on in the rain and it turns to night, will suddenly be panicking trying to find the headlight switch in a rental car they are entirely unfamiliar with when the headlights go off when they (or the computer) - already no taillights on - when they turn off the wipers due to no longer raining. And, of course, many new cars now automatically turn on wipers if they sense rain - whether it is actually is raining or not.

    Would you trust your life to your computer NEVER freezing up or crashing? All this federal required computer "safety" equipment does exactly that. The government is gambling your life that no computer in your car will ever freeze up or crash - and they do - by the millions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  9. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I already explained how federally mandated safety crap harms and kills people.

    For example, with more and more cars having auto headlights on, I see LOTS AND LOTS of cars driving down the road with no tail lights on. Why? Because their headlights are on, and they can't see their taillights - so presume their taillights are on because there headlights are on. Which is more dangerous? A car driving in a "sun shower sprinkle at noon on a bright sunny day? Or an elderly person driving on a road 20 miles below the speed limit in total darkness with no tail lights? The government decided to DICTATE that latter, since we are talking about what people forget to do. Candidly, I have never heard of an accident in the day during the rain for lack of headlights on. Have you?

    The federal government REQUIRES that all safety related "electrical systems" (since you don't like the word electronics) must be interfaced with the vehicles computers to report it to the computer, assure it is functioning, and often to disable the vehicle to various degrees if not functioning correctly. It USED to be if your electric window will not open it could only be a fuse, the switch or the motor. Now it can be the computer. It has been this way increasingly for over a decade. This is not optional to buy or for manufacturers to put into automobiles.

    There is no end to your concept of "government protecting others from you," is there? Of course not wearing a helmet endangers others. If a motorcyclist hit his/her head on something low hanging, or a truck mirror hits the cyclist and he/she is not wearing a helmet, this could cause the motorcyclist and passenger to crash a 700 pound motorcycle into a group of school children standing by the road, killing them. Shouldn't the government protect people and children from motorcyclists endangering them because they don't want to wear helmets? Or is it now that YOU don't want to wear a helmet, so the safe-for-others rule doesn't apply?

    "Libertarian" means nothing and everything, whatever each person says they want it to mean. But the TRUE meaning of libertarian means "the government should stay out of people's lives," not all the contortions and self serving perversions to the word people like the OP try to twist it to. The OP message is that of a government control freak, not a libertarian.
     
  10. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its not just the federal government. Not only do they require dangerous safety crap that can kill up, they outlaw using common safety equipment.

    For example, just a few days ago I on a Florida highway there was a downpour so heavy vehicles were slowing down to 30 to 35 on a 70 mph turnpike, risking of course a rear end. NUMEROUS vehicles had turned on there emergency flashers. Seems like a good idea, no?

    Turning on your emergency flashers in Florida is a misdemeanor offense, literally illegal - a decision by state control freak zippy pinheads who decided this created a danger. http://realtime.blog.palmbeachpost....ights-in-the-rain-and-it-could-cost-you-poll/

    Nor are you to use your emergency flashers unless you are broke down. So, really, the government should mandate that emergency flashers don't work unless a vehicle is stopped and in park, correct?

    SO, in OPer's and other government control freaks on this thread, not only should headlights automatically be turned on if the wipers are on, but also the emergency flashers should be disabled if you turn the wipers on and the vehicle is not stopped an in park and turned off - since it is ONLY for a vehicle that has broke down, right? No limping a car along the shoulder with motor problems with the flashers on so to warn you are going slow, that is ILLEGAL. That is how people who want a control-freak government look at it. The government decided it is better for people to not turn on their emergency flashers in intense rain or unless the car is broke down, so the government should require that emergency flashers be disabled if a person turns on the windshield wipers. That is the rational, isn't it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  11. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  12. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    I have a few Peterbilts for my farm, they are set up that way. If you have your windshield wipers on your light turn on. I see nothing wrong with it. Most vehicles are switching over to led lightsvanway so burn out is less of an issue. I don't think having your lights come on when moving would be a bad thing. Alot of drivers are lazy and stupid and fail to turn on lights in low visibility situations. Even with auto lights they will sometimes not turn on in foggy conditions. And some people who have GM vehicles fail to turn on their light because they have day time lamps, but forget that their taillamps are not on. Just like I think cruise control should not work in low temperatures because people are just plan stupid and use it in slippery situations. I personal do not care if they ditch their cars but they are endangering other people. Unfortunately most thing that the government does is for the lowest common denominator citizen.
     
  13. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    None of your examples make any sense. I've never needed to open a door while on a boat ramp. Your first example is pretty silly too. There is no good reason to open a door while not in park, unless the car is off. That said, I don't like cars with automatic locks. Currently, none of my cars have that feature (had one car that did, which I hated).

    I agree that there shouldn't be laws forcing these things, but I don't
    I haven't seen a car for sale with window cranks since 1989 (last time I had one without). I've had window cranks need repair (and I've had electric windows need repair, percentage is about the same--I've owned 9 cars in my life, two with window cranks, 7 with electric only. 1/2 of the window cranks needed repair, 2/7 of the electric windows needed it). I don't park my car with the windows down. Again, this isn't a law thing, this is a market thing. The market doesn't like window cranks, and hasn't since the early 1990s. Can you even get a car with window cranks anymore?
    Again, I don't mind the daytime running lights--they are safer. I buy the cheap lamps, which last longer.
     
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I've been driving since 1983. It's been illegal to drive with flashers on as long as I've been driving. Why? The flashers disable the turn signals and brake lights.
     
  15. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've driven with flashers on many times, such as when the fuse for the backlights went out, lights on a low trailer stopped working, or other problems with the vehicle or trailer lighting. I have also driven with flashers on when the car could only limp along at a very slow speed so not to cause a rear end collision - such as a flat tire to get the vehicle far off safely, unlike idiots who literally will change their tire in the lane.
     
  16. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Large boats are wider than vehicles so unless you lean out the door you can't see behind you when on a boat ramp. The mirrors do not give a good sense of the angle of the boat either nor are all boat ramps a straight back shot for a large boat. Try backing up a 10 foot wide boat 42 feet long on a boat ramp where you also are doing a 30 degree curve - blind. In my opinion, backing up blind at a boat ramp is very dangerous even if moving very slowly.
     
  17. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why you need the passenger side open for that. ALso, do you lean out the door while driving? I've watched big boats backed in, never saw anybody leaning out of an open door in one. I still can't visualize it.
     
  18. Right is the way

    Right is the way Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you need to practice backing with your mirrors more. I do not have a boat but went fishing this summer in South Dakota and backed up the boat around a boater who decided to park in the middle of lot and had to come in from an angle with no problem. But I work on a farm and drive truck and large machines all the time where you have only mirrors to rely on.
     
  19. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, the driver's side door. Yes, I lean out the door. There is one particular ramp where I have to do about a 30 degree turn at a two boat ramp and oft a waiting line at that. It also is an extremely tight fit to put my big boats away if on a trailer - again it is not a straight shot in and for one I have about 1 foot clearance on each side while having to turn it. Mirrors are worthless if the boat is at an angle to the truck. Yes, I've backed around all sorts of challenges too. I watch what the boat/trailer is doing while I back slowly, adjusting as I move along. The alternative would be to stop every 3 inches, put it in park, get out, get back in and do another 3 inches, unless off too much, having to pull forward a few feet - and then get in and out, putting it in park ever few inches again. Why? Because some zippy pinhead requires it.

    A straight back in works with wide out side mirrors. Mirrors do not work if the boat is at an angle to the vehicle. Either you can only see the side of the boat - or can't see the boat at all, depending on which side. Although I'm often towed and backed trailers, I'm piss poor at it. I don't think I should have to attend truck driving school because some zippy pinhead g-man decided to have my doors locked unless I'm in park. If I'm so stupid as to jump out of a moving vehicle a locked door isn't going to protect me from that degree of stupidity.

    "Let's require another thing everyone has to pay for, that can break, and can be an annoyance to protect people from themselves" is pursued to fanatical degrees by some agencies.

    People do get locked out of their car because of auto locks, including while the car is running due to failure. Car parked in the sun, 130 degrees inside, or -20 degrees, and people do start their cars to cool it down or warm it up. The car auto locks the doors after a few seconds because the computer misreads it not in park (all cars are not fly by wire and most now shift by wire, ie computer.) Now the person is locked out fo their car, maybe away from home, motor running. "Thank you Uncle Sam for locking me out of my car!"

    I ALSO HAVE NOTICED EVERYONE IS AVOIDING THE POLL ON REQUIRED BREATHALYZERS AND CELL PHONE JAMMERS, though it known that would save thousands to tens of thousands of lives per year and avoid even more serious injuries. Yet no one can show ONE auto fatality due to someone not having headlights on in the rain.

    Why? Because it really is NOT about safety at all. It is about wanting the government to require everyone to do what you want OTHER people to do, but don't dare require anything you don't want to do. American control-freakism is an out of control epidemic in this country.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  20. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Not every feature that you seem to be having issue with is government mandated. A lot of these features are manufactured sourced, and that is a free market issue.

    Cell phone jammers are not needed because there are often multiple people in a car using cell phones. Additionally, with hands free devices, cell phones are no more a distraction than food or a digital billboard. Breathalyzers are mandated for those who have shown issues with drinking and driving.

    I'm guessing that you are against the addition of the separate breaking light bar that was made mandatory many years back, since it's another electronic device that can go wrong and lock you out of your car even though it was added to ensure people could tell when the breaks are being engaged.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  21. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You make my point that really is NOT about safety, but rather you want the government to require people do what you do, but absolutely not if it would interfere with what you want.

    NO ONE has shown ONE accident due to someone not turning their lights on in the rain. I already explained the dangers and even that it makes no sense to claim people will forget to turn on their headlights in the rain, but won't forget to turn on their taillights went it turns dark since their see their headlights are on and can't see their tail lights. NOT ONE ACCIDENT and danger created, but the government should require it...

    ... but with it KNOWN and PROVEN that texting and cell phone use kills thousands of people a year, even entire families, and even far more crippled for life all agree the government MUST not stop that because it might inconvenience you - so all those people have to die by the thousands.

    Such is the nature of government control freaks. They want to government to force everyone to do and not do the same as themselves, but OMG! if the government wants to force any you don't want.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  22. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    At least I can be certain everyone favoring the OP's plan agrees that climate change is a total hoax since headlights on increases fuel consumption and no one harm has been shown necessitating this next mandatory regulation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What if you're trying to sneak up on someone at night, or trespassing somewhere and you need to use wipers? CAUGHT! No thx. I vote to keep cars as 'manually operated' as possible (or at least keep the option of manual everything).

    Whats more, the more complicated these systems get, the harder it is to fix crap yourself. KISS
     
    JakeJ likes this.

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