Marijuana should be illegal !!!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Quasar44, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the greatest deception of marijuana is that it makes one think they are accomplishing great things by just existing.......they aren't. America does not need anymore dumbing down. Video games already do that!
     
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  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to pine away for illegality "If that only worked". Perhaps you meant something else - my bad if I misrepresented your post.
    That said - I don't actually claim that you wanted it illegal .. but it is inferred.
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sounds more like Trump syndrome than the effects of Pot. You are making stuff up and assuming it is true.

    So by "America does not need anymore dumbing down" (agreed) - does this mean you think pot should be illegal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  4. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What I was inferring is that criminalizing it will not make the problem "go away" . I prefer decriminalization and I am quite surprised at the number of libertarians that are ok with the government regulating it.
     
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  5. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Think what is inferred is you don't need to glorify something that is detrimental. Perhaps we should stop incarcerations, and just recognize it for the gutter drug it is. Declaring it legal gives it a stamp of approval.
     
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  6. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read my posts. It is illegal and government should not put it's stamp of approval on it be declaring it LEGAL. Perhaps we should stop prosecuting it. I smoked pot heavily for four years and even before I knew who Donald Trump was. Don't draw conclusions based on TDS.
     
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  7. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I used to buy a kilo at a time for personal use. I quit just to see what "normal" would be .. and to better judge the effects of smoking it like cigarettes.. there IS a difference! Try quitting for a couple of months and see if, you too, notice the difference.

    You can't argue as a "user", it like anything else.. try telling a drinking alcoholic about why they should quit drinking and see how far that gets you.
     
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  8. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know we are not alone in this.
     
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  9. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What happens if you're caught with an ounce of water? Or an ounce of salt? Or an ounce of almost anything in the world? That's what should happen if you're caught with an ounce of marijuana or cocaine or meth or heroin.. Or if you're caught with a pound, you should get the exact same reaction from government that you'd get if you're caught with a pound of water.
     
  10. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Marijuana doesn't dumb anyone down; it simply highlights dumb that was already there. Natural selection will take care of it and restore us back to where we were before drug laws and welfare added survival of the least fit to our species.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree no libertarian should be calling for pot to be illegal. That would be like a Liberal joining the anti abortion crowd.

    but speaking frankly - no believer in the principles of Republicanism - or the principles of Classical Liberalism - should be able to justify voting yes in a referendum Criminalizing Pot.
     
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  12. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The natural state for marijuana is legal - or, more specifically, zero interference from government. This worked for a few billion years until racists in the Democrat Party wanted to make it illegal just about 100 years ago. Government can't declare it legal; they can only declare it illegal. They can stop declaring it illegal and let it return to its natural state.
     
  13. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those aren't libertarians. Those are potheads who just want to smoke pot and will actually give up their own, yours, and my liberty as long as they can smoke pot. Their understanding of libertarian goes no further than their bong.
     
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  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    So does government indoctrination/propaganda that declares marijuana is a harmful drug that should be made illegal and all those who have anything to do with it should be behind bars.

     
  15. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    George Carlin is not my mentor....neither is Cheech and Chong. I never bought into "Reefer Madness" and I never bought into "government indoctrination/propaganda". What I say is my own experience. If you read my posts you would know that. Marijuana is a gutter drug....it is already illegal. I don't believe that you, with wasted minds should be behind bars. I just think our culture should know, it is a gutter drug and shun it.
     
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  16. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They can just stop enforcing those "marijuana laws". Just like spitting on the sidewalk, we know it is illegal, disgusting, but not enforced.
     
  17. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The immature never improve on marijuana. The only thing I have to say to you is, we do not need to glorify it as has been done by the Marijuana lobby. They know where they should stick their gummy bears!
     
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  18. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My son, Levi, is a licensed cannabis grower on Mount Hood in Oregon. I am proud that he took the time and spent the money to go legal. If most young men his age had what he has invested into going legal, they would have just retired on that money. It cost him five years and five million dollars. No loan. No one will loan money for that. He will recoup his investment in one year. After that, the sky's the limit. After all, how many 5 million dollar years do you need?

    Besides, men my age love, absolutely love, to talk about their son's careers with other old men. If Levi hadn't gone legal, I would have never had the pleasure of telling everyone how proud I am of my son.
     
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It issue has nothing to do with Gov't giving Pot its stamp of approval. While your claim is not false - it is not a valid legal argument - even from a Utilitarian Perspective.

    This is about whether or not there was justification for criminalization of pot to begin with - whether or not the law is legitimate. Citing some post facto truism does not have relevance to this question.

    Pot law is ragingly illegitimate on numerous "valid legal fronts" ..

    Would you like me to list a few and then see how they stack up against your invalid ex post facto Utilitarian justification for law.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  20. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You use some pretty big words there Hoss... pretty impressive! If you can strike the word "illegal" from the books without glorifying and promoting it, more power to you. The problem is, the marijuana lobby wants it used by EVERYONE!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    They are not my "mentors" either, despite that Carlin has it pretty much correct. And so does my own personal experience. What is truly illegal, because it is unconstitutional is that government has legislated its illegality. What is also detrimental to "our culture" and humanity is for those who decide for the rest of "our culture" that it is a "gutter drug" and that all should "shun it", especially in light of the fact that it has documented beneficial properties.
     
  22. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Individuals can glorify it all they wish. And they can condemn it all they wish. That's freedom of speech. Government should get out of it, neither condemning nor glorifying.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can't strike the word illegal from the books without glorifying and promoting it ?! Why are you pretending I have claimed otherwise ?

    The point you can not seem to deal with is the fact that the above is not a valid legal argument. If you think otherwise - you are welcome to defend your premise. Repetition of premise and making up some pretend dumb claim against your premise - is not a defense of anything other than cyclical fallacious mindlessness.

    The Coke Lobby wants folks to drink more soda -- welcome to free enterprise.

    The real problem here is that you want to make law which violates the founding principles and the principles of republicanism - and you don't realize it.
     
  24. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I am not Liberal. I am not Conservative.

    Drugs and guns enable excessive number of deaths.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do guns have to do with the issue - other than show how silly your fallacious Utilitarian justification for law is.

    Car's enable an excessive number of deaths .. certainly more than Pot - not sure how the stats compare to Guns.

    Your claim is that we should make law on the basis of 1) Utilitarianism 2) a really bad and in fact invalid (fallacious) not even a good Utilitarian argument.

    Define "excessive" Answer -we don't need to - things that enable a far greater number of deaths are legal - so Pot does not meet the "excessive Bar" Unless you think Cars should be illegal. If that is not the case - your argument fails straight away.

    Second problem - Utilitarian justification for law is an anathema to the founding principles .. principles of republicanism and classical liberalism.

    So then is "If it saves one life (or "saves lives" ) "Harm Reduction" - of its own volition (which is what you are suggesting) valid justification for law ?

    If that is the case - we should be banning skiing - would that not save a few lives ? How about boating - that is really dangerous - one could drown .. driving a car ? forget it.

    If fact one should probably not rise from bed in the morning as one might fall and break neck. Who gets to draw the line ?

    The problem with Utilitarian justification for law is that it completely ignores individual liberty - It only looks at "what will increase happiness for the collective"

    If we make the bar as strict as you would like "Pot" I would argue this would not increase happiness for the collective- but - even if you were to succeed in this respect - having a valid Utilitarian argument - you still have to argue that Utilitarian justification is valid justification for law.

    Why should we ignore the founding principles - individual liberty - the rule of law - and remove the safeguards that protect essential liberty - over Pot ?
     

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