National Security Act. You are the one out of your depth .. obviously .. for not realizing that it is a criminal offense for our intelligence agencies to spy on US citizens. That I got the name of the act wrong is no big deal.
I would say yes, you are misunderstanding me. Giftedone was claiming the NSA should be charged with violating the Espionage Act. That's fairly nonsensical, and I realized he doesn't know anything at all about this topic other than being a Snowden fanboy.
It rather changes your argument in this entire thread. That's why I don't think you really know anything about this topic.
Just because I got the name of the act wrong (which has now been corrected) does not make your nonsense claim that nothing criminal was done any less false. Nice try but, you are still wrong. Snowden is a hero for outing criminal activity within Gov't
Well we have differing definitions of "hero." Some people think Bergdahl is a hero too.But your hero lied about going to the NSA IG, and had planned to steal and release classified information even before he even got the job at the NSA. Not to mention almost all of the information he released had nothing to do with Americans and everything to do with foreign intelligence operations. All of this has been known for years, so either you're woefully misinformed about your hero or you are knowingly supporting a traitor.
So, Lil Mike, let me ask you, is there information that was classified that he could have released without you believing he should be charged? or you believe he was wrong to release any of the information he did?
No. If Snowden seriously wanted to be a whistler blower, he could have gone through the NSA IG process, which he didn't do. If that failed to give any results he could have taken it to Senator's Wyden or Paul, both of whom could have provided whistle blower protections for him. But...he decided to defect to Russia.
What happens in situations when there's not a good chain of command in place for whistleblowers to go to? Or the person they're supposed to go to won't listen to them or doesn't care? Then there's also the possibility that if he tries to go through the proper channels and later decides to go public, he'd be under strong suspicion as the person who issued the leak. So going through proper channels could be a little bit self-defeating in the event those officials don't do anything about it and the one releasing the information wants to have a plan B. I'm not specifically saying what he did wasn't wrong, but certainly you must agree there exist hypothetical situations where illegal release of information is the best decision?
No, but since everyone tends to yell at everyone else when they threadjack... And besides. That was back in June. Let it go man.
There are so many points and counter points in this thread and all you can focus on is me? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be flattered or creeped the [bleep] out. I'm leaning towards creeped the [bleep] out honestly.
You're the one obsessing on something said four months ago. I'm not complaining, more pointing out deeply sad and tragic that is.
Ooh...I've a friend who has few of those. There're the sandwich bags with the fake mold printed on them so as to keep ******** coworkers from eating your lunch. Sadly all they really seem to do is make the people who clean the lunchroom fridge think is that your lunch has gone home to Jesus and they throw it out. So they kinda fail at their primary function. Also deeply sad and tragic.
Glad you realize the sandwiches are actually good. I feel like a lot of posts seem one thing, but are really some other thing.
Here is your actual truthful message. I (meaning you) do not like your post. To make you miserable, I shall complain and make a huge deal out of your posts and try to rip you in the process.
Was obvious actually. If the bread was actually moldy, the lettuce and the tomato wouldn't look as fresh as it does.
No, my actual message is "Gee. I say something 4 months ago and that and that alone becomes the focus of your attention? That's a bit odd isn't it?"
Well I've no doubt that you could spin all kinds of hypothetical situations in which the system breaks down, or there is an action movie scenario in which the NSA, a government agency filled with nerds, suddenly become trained assassins and go after him Jason Bourne style. But we'll never know in Snowden's case because: 1. He never attempted to try the system. 2. He released all information that had nothing to do with Americans. Please spin a reason that a whistle blower only concerned about American privacy needs to release information on US efforts in Chinese computer hacking or Norwegian intelligence sharing with the US on Russia?
Those may not be the two best examples. Those are things China and Russia should have already been preparing against. Yes the leaked information confirmed suspicions, but if one looks at this completely logically it shouldn't really affect the precautions these foreign nations were taking (or already should have been taking). If anything the report only highlights these security issues. Those type of things, it's really arguable how much of an intelligence security risk it actually was. (More likely the public revelations just soured diplomatic relations a bit more)
A lot of real life issues are complicated, and we could argue and argue about it forever. I'm just concerned real justice may not be done, because some people have opinions that are not entirely true. Was what he did wrong? To exactly what degree was it wrong? How much punishment does he deserve? These are all questions that can be asked. (Not asking you to answer them right now) I don't know, a lot of the aspects in this case seem very subjective. I'm assuming you believe he should be punished because it was wrong to do what he did, not just because it was against the law. (The latter doesn't sound like a necessarily convincing argument)
I really don't know what sort of conclusion you're trying to arrive at. For me it's simple: He was both morally and legally wrong. He betrayed his co workers and his country. He severely damaged US national security for decades to come, so the full cost of his damage may not be known for a long time, if ever. By crippling the US intelligence apparatus, he's made the world much more dangerous for us than it would have been otherwise. If he ever comes back to the US, he should be tried. If he thinks he has a mitigating story to tell, he can do that at his trial.
