Meet Trump demographics

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by VietVet, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    The choice was between a person who betrayed her oath, was entrusted to represent the people and the nation and abused that trust for self-enhancement, who lied to the faces of the parents of dead Americans, whose entire life has been covered in scandal and deceit; and a man who is blunt, coarse, questionable but not proven deceitful. Trump is a saint compared to Hilary.

    Your choice was between absolutely horrible, and merely bad.
     
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  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Stating historical facts isn't trolling.
     
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  3. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    "not proven deceitful"????? REALLY? How about the scam of Trump University, or misuse of funds in the Trump Foundation - to name just two PROVEN deceits of this flim-flam man.

    You state an opinion of HIllary betraying her oath, Trump telling lies is fact, not opinion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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  4. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My estimation of Hillary Clinton was that she was a pathological liar. I thought the ease and smoothness with which she could deliver her lies and deceptions was truly disturbing. I believed that as president, she would never just tell the truth about anything to the American people. Never.

    I believed, and said so many times on this board, that Trump was a flawed candidate. But I voted for him. I don't think the man or his policies are perfect, but I don't believe every word that comes out of his mouth is a calculated lie either.

    Welcome to the site.

    Seth :oldman:
     
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  5. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree that Hillary is flawed, but in the lying category she is an amateur compared to Trump.
    I also agree that "I don't believe every word that comes out of his mouth is a calculated lie either." - Many of his lies are not calculated - just seemingly random lies, easily disproved, that seem to be said only to appease his ego. "Biggest inaugural crowd EVAH".
    Hillary, at least, is extremely competent and well-informed. She was always prepared and did her homework. She has been attacked for most of her adult life and rises above the attacks and largely ignores them, remaining calm. She was "investigated" (witch-hunted) over Benghazi ad nauseum - what did they find? ZERO.
    None of those traits apply to Trump. Trump has an extremely fragile ego - he demands praise and adulation. Disagree with Trump and he calls the person childish names - for example, Carly Fiorina or Rosie O'Donnell are called ugly (okay, but not relevant or adult).
    The temperament of an insecure adolescent (as shown by his tweets) is not one that I want in charge of our military.
     
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  6. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You and I will respectfully disagree on Hillary. I thought Hillary was an expert liar on a level that Trump couldn't reach if he tried. I thought she defaulted to lying or deception, even when telling the unvarnished truth would have helped her.

    I also didn't think she was competent. I believed she was probably the worst Secretary of State in my lifetime, and she was the worst appointee mistake of President Obama. I blame her and Obama for the debacles in Libya and Syria. Even Obama admitted in subsequent interviews that Libya was his worst mistake. I'll give him credit for that much, but I don't think it is in Hillary's DNA to admit to anything, ever.

    Anyways, that's enough. I'm sure we'll disagree in the future, but it's never personal with me. I'll debate you on issues respectfully. I'm too damn old for a food fight in the cafeteria, know what I mean?

    Seth
     
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  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have our 10% for sure. Plus I'd guess during the draft a lot of non-rich liberals got their card pulled.
     
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  8. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It iscommon for people to come onto the forum pretending to have been Republican and other false histories, and then posting nothing but defenses of Democrats and attacks against Republicans. I never understood what they think they are accomplishing as the false representations are quickly transparent.
     
  9. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your attitude. Respect is something our so-called president could use a large dose of.
    I am older than you are and I try to walk away from trolls, rather than stoop to their level also.

    Hillary worse than Condescending Rice? "Mushroom clouds over an American City" Rice? Libya worse than Iraq? I think not...

    We do agree it was a poor choice we were faced with, but not the first time, and probably not the last.
     
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  10. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    IF you are referring to me - (as I am assuming since this is my intro thread) - I never said I was republican. I was independent, as are more Americans than either repub or dem. I have voted for GOP candidates, and "rooted" for some at times (like McCain in 2000), but now I am 100% against the GOP, which, by default puts me for the Democratic Party. My disgust with the GOP began with Bush, how the party defended an obviously incompetent president and an abhorrent VP, and was cemented by the Vile behavior of "turtle man" McConnell leading the GOP opposing EVERYTHING - even GOP ideas such as ObamaCare, which was RomneyCare and which originated with the GOP Heritage Foundation.
     
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  11. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet Hillary voted for the Iraq war. Obama was against it from the beginning, and yet he perpetrated two "regime change" wars in middle eastern countries during his term, both with the enthusiastic support of Hillary Clinton, both with disastrous results. We can argue that the Iraq war was worse from the standpoint of cost and casualties, but what did Obama and Clinton learn from that war? What is that old saying about repeating the same mistakes? It was as if both of them were oblivious to those lessons learned from Iraq. Oblivious!

    I do believe that we are right to deconstruct ISIS. I believe they are an insult to humanity, and they have to go. I have and I will continue to support our efforts to that end. But you mentioned poor choices. The rise of ISIS is related to poor choices we made, and when we defeat them (and we will), we will once again be faced with poor choices. My bias is to choose the one that takes our troops out of harm's way. An immediate withdrawal would be the least worst choice in my opinion.

    Seth
     
  12. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I am enjoying a civil debate with you.
    I do not accept that Libya and Syria were initiated by Obama/Clinton. They were "organic" uprisings by the people of those countries - unlike Iraq, where we aggressively started a war. Yes, Hillary supported Iraq, as did Trump - him saying now that he opposed Iraq is another lie. There IS however, a clip of him saying "I guess so" when asked if he supported the Iraq war at the time.
    Anyway - I feel it is significant that no US troops were sent to either Libya or Syria (until Trump sent them to Syria) and that Khaddafi is gone, and that no US lives were lost in ousting Khaddafi. (Benghazi was an embassy attack after Khaddafi was gone - less costly than many attacks by terrorists posing as Afghani forces on US troops)

    The second paragraph of yours I largely agree with, in that ISIS are barbarians and need to be excised like a cancer. I do not for a moment believe that Trump really does " know more about ISIS than the generals, believe me".
    My opinion is that we need to pressure other muslim nations - Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait... to fight ISIS - when we are in the Middle East, however well-intentioned, we will always be "infidels" and cannot win over the population, and play into the "crusades" propaganda of ISIS. I don't know how we can get the "good" muslims to fight the "bad" muslims, but we could certainly start by putting pressure on our supposed muslim "allies".
     
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  13. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Libya and Syria were internal civil wars, unlike Iraq. But our decision to take a side, our decision to bomb, and our decision to arm and train a side were all our choices. My position on both of these two civil wars is that neither one of them was any of our business, and I steadfastly believe that our involvement in those civil wars made things worse in both countries.

    The fact that the U.S. possesses the military might to bomb some third world government into oblivion without putting boots on the ground does not justify doing it. We bombed the Libyan government into oblivion and left the country with no governance at all. Obama said the aftermath of the war against Libya was his greatest mistake.

    My opinion of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Kuwait is that they think of their militaries as there own internal security forces. But none of those countries really emphasize having an expeditionary capability. I'm sure the Saudi army could defend against an attack by some other neighbor's army, but to actually export force? Nice idea, but trying to organize middle eastern countries to do anything reminds me of herding cats or trying to make a statue out of sand.

    So if we have an avowed enemy that we must deal with, let's just deal with it. Right now, in Syria and Iraq, that would be ISIS. But when we're done with them, let's just get out. Those countries are just not worth the time, money and blood that it would take to fix them. America does not have that kind of patience, nor can we afford the cost. Kill the cancer as best we can, leave their civil wars for them to deal with, and get out.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Trouble is if we do leave them alone we are likely to end with a humanitarian crisis like Somalia. Already we have more refugees from civil wars than we can cope with
     
  15. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    And now the truth comes out, you are a Hilary supporter. So of course you do not support Trump, your post #1 is a scam.

    Hilary allowed the Russians to "buy" 20% of all US uranium production, Hilary lied about Benghazi to protect her political career, she looked Gold Star parents in the eye and lied to them, she used the Clinton Foundation for pay-to-play, she lied about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, she was caught up in the Rose Law firm billing records scandal and her "lost" billing records showed up in her White House office years later, she abused FBI background files (Filegate), she was caught handing out favors with the White House travel office (Travelgate), she stole furniture from the White House, when Bill was attorney general and then gov of Arkansas 2 Tyson execs handled "her" $800 cattle futures account in which she ended up with about $100,000, and then she did not pay taxes on the gains and had to pay fines (but no jail time, wonder why?), then there was Whitewater and all its entanglements.

    Every aspect of Hilarys public and private life is filled with scandal, starting with her abuse of power in her first job (working for the Watergate Committee). Even when she was a nobody and the so-called "right wing conspiracy" did not even know her name, deceit and corruption followed her every move.

    And what has Trump done? A failed attempt to start a university which the haters try to turn into something dishonest, misuse of Trump Foundation funds ranging from $20k to $258K depending upon who you believe. Plus Trump is at times earthy and gruff and very non-PC.

    Trump is a saint compared to Hilary. Only a fool thinks Hilary is honest, much less more honest than Trump.
     
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  16. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Evenin'

    Just think what we could do in war-torn nations from a humanitarian standpoint. Instead of bombing or taking sides and arming and training a side, what could we do? America is the logistical heavyweight champion of the world. We could set up refugee camps with food, clean water, medicine and doctors, adequate shelter in those countries or perhaps very close to them. We could use our undisputed military might to protect them. Just think how different the refugee crisis would be if we did that instead of arming and training a side or bombing a government into oblivion. In a civil war, we could stay neutral, and just take care of non-combatant refugees. No one could do it better than we could.

    If some middle eastern country chooses to go to war with itself, let it. It is not our business to interfere with that. But we could do a lot of good for the non-combatants, and prevent the mass migration of refugees.

    Seth
     
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  17. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we made choices in Libya and Syria - both choices were for humanitarian reasons, the people were and are being killed by despots - the Iraq fiasco was - I'm really unsure of why we invaded Iraq - the justification kept shifting.

    You are right about the Gulf states - they are basically wusses, but since Mecca and Medina are in Saudi Arabia, what they say carries a ton of weight in the Islamic world - if they would decry ISIS at every turn, it would help. Perhaps they could raise a mercenary army from Indonesia - as long as they're Muslims, it would take they whole "infidel" charge away from the conflict.

    While I despise ISIS, I have no fear of them here - the statistics show that if I am to meet a violent end, it will be at the hand of a redneck wacko as in Sandy Hook with easy access to military weapons, not some radical Islamic terrorist.
     
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  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You do not have to sell an Aussie on "Make love not war" - look at what happened after the Bali Bombings - we did not go to war with Indonesia (well, basically THAT would have been suicide - they have a lot more people than we do :))

    Instead we lent them police investigators, forensics scientists, equipment etc to help catch the REAL criminals - which we did

    And THEN we built them a hospital - which still stands today

    Outcome - people of Bali think Aussies are great :D
     
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  19. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    That does sound good, but where? Take Syria, for example - where in Syria could there be a refugee camp? Again, we need buy-in from other Islamic nations like Saudi Arabia, they really need to help. Why doesn't Saudi Arabia, etc., take in refugees? Is it the Sunni - Shia crappola? Also, refugee camps are only temporary - people need more than food and shelter - they need hope for a future, which is why they try to get to western Europe.
     
  20. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, people were being killed by despots. But why? Because there was a civil war, that's why. In other words, two sides went to war with each other. In Syria, the government shot first. The opposition armed itself and shot back, and the country devolved into a full-blown civil war. But that civil war threatens neither the U.S., Europe, or Israel. It's contained within the borders of Syria. We can deal with whatever the outcome is. If Assad prevails, we'll deal with it. If the rebels prevail, we'll deal with it. The one thing we will not tolerate is for ISIS or AQ to prevail. Those organizations are our business.

    I agree that we should use our influence on the Saudis to delegitimize ISIS and AQ. It is Saudi religious teachings (Wahhabism) that inspire those people. Saudi Arabia obviously is not a democracy with freedom of speech. I think I would pressure the Saudis to "lay it down" to the religious leaders. Do not teach violence. Do not teach armed jihad. They can have their beliefs and customs, but they will teach peace. .... or else.

    I don't fear them either on a personal fear level, although we know they would like to hurt us on our shores. Even if they were to successfully pull off some mass casualty attack, ala 9/11, what are the chances that any one of us would be harmed? Very low. What I find intolerable with ISIS is that genocide, torture, enslavement, mass rape, and terror are its official policy. Like in Paris, their targets are innocent, unarmed civilians, and they rejoice in their depravity when they succeed. I see them as a stain on humanity, an insult to humanity. Every one of them that we blow to bits is justice served and is doing good. And while I hate sending our brave young people into war, wiping out this scourge needs to be done. I do not approve of despots abusing their people, but I understand that it is a fact of life in many parts of the world. But ISIS has crossed the line that we should tolerate. May our bombs find their targets, and may our bullets be well-aimed. And may we send this enemy straight to hell.
     
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  21. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where in Syria could we set up a refugee camp? To be honest with you, any damn place we chose. But probably near the borders of Turkey, Jordan, or Iraq, or right smack in the middle of Syria somewhere. Don't forget who we are, Marine. I would choose several places, and those places would be well protected, believe me. They would have an American flag flying over them signalling an explicit message: "Don't f*ck with me".

    Besides, as a neutral third party in the Syrian civil war, why would anyone want to incur our wrath? The government or the rebels, either one.
     
  22. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    " " " There is also no virtue in being self righteously incorrect. " " "

    I have never met a Vietnam era, boots on the ground veteran, who didn't have a sharp dislike for the Democratic Party. If he is a real vet, he probably served on a ship instead of splattering gooks on the outskirts of Da Nang.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  23. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I deleted the civil war parts - I don't agree we should look away at any mass murder, but we don't seem good at stopping it, either, if it is in the Middle East. Bosnia worked out, and I think that was the right thing to do.

    I agree completely with your last paragraph. As old as I am, I am still a good shot and in pretty good shape, and would welcome a chance to "take out" some of the ISIS vermin. They are barbarians, destroying ancient relics as well committing inhuman, depraved acts. I would be happy to speed their meeting allah.
     
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  24. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Me too. I served in the Army in the mid-70's post Viet Nam. My son served in the Marines 05-09 and fought the scourge in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'd pick up a rifle and go with ya, Marine, if we could.

    Cheers :beer:
     
  25. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cool story bro!:applause:
     
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