Mick Mulvaney publicly confirms Trump held up Ukraine aid for political gain

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And all Presidents do it all the time. Leftists seemed to have learned a new exotic term, quid pro quo, and now feel they can bandy the term around as though they're legal experts or have some grasp of the facts.

    Whenever any country gives aid there is a 'quid pro quo'. If they just hand out money with no conditions attached they are being foolish.

    Trump said there was no qpq but there certainly should have been. Mick Mulvaney just told the truth about these things and the leftists gasp in astonishment. Are they really that foolish and naive? The political leaders seem to think their followers are, and they're right. Teach them a short latin term and they all immediately become legal scholars..
     
  2. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And we should hope so.
     
  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And it is not as if an investigation into 2016 meddling would be devoid of political implications
     
  4. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's acceptable for activities in the national interest...not for personal gain. It would seem the only person who can't put the 2016 election behind them is the one who won it. Why does that strike me as curious?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  5. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There was no obvious QPQ but there should certainly be one. If as a condition of financial aid Trump wanted to know of any corruption by any government officials he should certainly make it a condition. But he didn't. Instead he said 'a favor', and a favor that would benefit both countries.
     
  6. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whose personal gain are you referring to? Please explain with some detail.
     
  7. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is that not going to be that the DOD considered Zelensky a pretty good bet?? If not to clean up and punish all past acts of corruption to at least slow or stop new ones??

    Sort of like this?

    https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/7644...ertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup

    As the article said, it's Congresses job to know about stuff like this BEFORE they even approve the aid, the only exception being if something substantial changes after the vote...

    We all know what Trump means when he says "corruption"...
     
  8. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The President's. He seems determined to completely discredit the Mueller report that more or less cleared him, at least for as long as he's in office. Why?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  9. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    But he wasn't interested in "corruption by any government officials." He was interested in the dnc server and the Bidens. I wonder why me mentioned those things explicitly.
     
  10. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you explain why it's wrong to investigate any possible political corruption? Were you also against the Mueller investigation?
     
  11. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because that's where he thought corruption might exist. That should be clear to everyone.
     
  12. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look at you.. refusing to read the transcript. Let me help you a 2nd time.

    “The money held up had absolutely nothing to do with Biden.”

    Now you. most Leftists, and the MSM seem to have selective comprehension. The man stated repeatedly and then reaffirmed after the conference that Biden had nothing to do with it.

    Cherry pick those 10 seconds out of a 30 minute press conference, and know that no honest people find you credible. Mathematically, you are focusing on .5% of the press conference and ignoring all the rest and the follow up statement which 100% debunk this thread topic and your vacuous claim.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  13. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What 'implications' might there be?
     
  14. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    The president wants to discredit the mueller report? Huh? He’s fully embraced it, and accepted it. shifty and company can’t accept it
     
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  15. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't see why Republicans should be on the defensive about any of this.
     
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  16. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In the mean time while Ukraine was waiting for those antitank Javelin missiles, how many Russian tanks rolled over Ukrainian positions ?
     
  17. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    Really? Wasn't the prosecutor investigating rampant corruption in the Ukraine government? You don't think Barisma was the only company under investigation, do you? With so much alleged corruption, it's rather odd that the only 2 instances trump mentioned would directly benefit him politically? Nah, coincidence.
    I'm sure it's also just bad luck that trump decided to have the phone memo transferred to a higher security IT system, right?
     
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  18. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In a courtroom, that's called leading the witness

    Trump asking for a general corruption review and Ukraine comes back with something specific on the Bidens - Good
    Trump asking for a corruption review into the Bidens - Bad

    Still cannot see how you don't understand that..... but OK..
     
  19. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're correct that he can, in certain circumstances withhold funds approved by congress. BUT, in doing so he must notify congress that he is, and why he is holding them. Since that wasn't done, it is illegal tpo do what he did, and what Mulvany admitted he did.

    This is getting worse by the day for Trump
     
  20. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not clear to me that Trump made that decision himself... wouldn't surprise me, but early to speculate who made the actual decision... reports are many on the call were disturbed, and you have to assume some of them would have had that power...
     
  21. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I said, THIS withhold is illegal..

    It's getting worse by the hour, but he's still too busy reveling in getting mind-****ed by deplorables in Dallas to care...
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  22. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Mueller investigation had two distinct parts. The first part was a continuation of an investigation into whether or not the Russians conspired with members of the Trump campaign and broke U.S. law. The finding, at the time the report was written, was "no," insomuch as there was insufficient evidence to justify indictments beyond those indicted during the investigation and a few loose threads such as on-going criminal investigations and trials (e.g. the Roger Stone trial). The second part of the report was possible "obstruction of justice" into that conspiracy investigation by the President and/or others. The result of that investigation was there were possible leads to still be followed, but at the time the investigation closed, there was insufficient evidence to rise to "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt," further complicated by a DoJ policy that prohibited the indictment of a sitting President. What evidence there was, was detailed in the report for either a continued investigation on the part of a future prosecutor based on the President's departure from office, or the repeal of the DoJ policy, or a Congressional investigation leading to removal from office by impeachment.
    I have no problem with an investigation into a quid pro quo between Biden and the Ukrainian government in respect to a violation of U.S. law. State the probable crime. Regarding the Crowdstrike Conspiracy Theory, it's already been debunked by the conclusions of the our intelligence agencies and the Mueller Report. To reopen that conclusion, I believe the public is entitled to know the "probable cause" and the approximate time of the conclusion of the various official investigations, together with an explanation of why the President's personal attorney was intertwined with official government agencies?
    Oh yeah...on the point that the Europeans weren't committing enough aid, it's not the President's call. Congress appropriated the funds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  23. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which prosecutor are you referring to? The one Biden got fired?
    There is a broader investigation of corruption though, of course, Burisma would certainly be among them.
    What is your point here? Please just come out with a statement rather than asking me a question.
     
  24. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't matter if it were trump or someone in his administration. Someone thought the memo to be more sensitive than others like it. And now we know why.
     
  25. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong transcript. I am referring to the transcript of the tel-con itself.
     

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