Migrants clash with Greek police at border after Turkey opens floodgates

I read an awful lot, and sometimes the information is not accurate so I like to correct myself. I read that the Turkish population on Cyprus was 11%, but actually it was 20%. This means that 4 out of 5 on the island are Greeks, and they all wanted to unite with Greece the way Crete did.

Cyprus was given to Britain by the Turkish Sultan for support in his war with Russia. When the Lausanne Treaty was being written up in the 1920's, the Cypriots were clamoring for Venezuelos the president of Greece to bring up the question of Cyprus. He couldn't though because he needed Britain's support in the treaty with Attaturk, and he feared saying anything that would upset the British.

Greek troops were needed on Cyprus because of the fighting going on between different Greek political factions and had nothing to do with the Turks on the island. Had Greece gone to war with Turkey when they invaded Cyprus, Greece would have sent additional troops, planes, etc. to Cyprus but they didn't. Nor did Kissinger mention Greek troops on Cyprus fighting the Turks - which would have started a war in both the Aegean and Thrace. Instead Kissinger said the Cypriots were getting extra arms from the Palestinians.

Kissinger was also surprised at how poorly the Turkish army did considering all the military equipment they had, and how tough the Greek Cypriots were - something Kissinger didn't expect. He said every boy from the age of 12 had taken up arms. But then again the Turks were invading another country, while the Greek Cypriots were fighting for their homeland against a foreign invader - and that makes a big difference.

The Greek troops were allowed by treaty to be on Cyprus, but they couldn't fight, because Kissinger threatened Greece not to go to war and to let the Turks land and that they can't afford to stay. It was the humiliation of the Greek government not going to war to support the Cypriots, that overthrew the junta.

Look, I recall the times and I remember Kissinger's grinning face during Pres. Ford's speech. I remember how Greece was preparing to go to war, and how panicky the people were on the islands close to Turkey were. It was summertime, and I knew vacationers on Chios and how anyone with a last Greek name was going to be conscripted in the army regardless of citizenship.

Yet they never were, because Greece never went to war - so forget the Turkish fairytales and get down to reality.

 

Jesus! You must be reading graffiti from the craphouse walls in Notos Atena. The coup in Cyprus started on 15 July and was led by the Greek Junta. The Turks didn't arrive until the 20th.

 

The Junta might have supported the coup since Makarios was leaning towards Moscow, the same way we support leaders in other countries during regime changes. A coup though is not an invasion of a foreign country. Everyone in the Cypriot government were Greek Cypriots. There were never any Greeks from Greece..

Turkey used the coup as an excuse to invade and occupy over 1/3 of the island, something they had wanted to do for years and Kissinger supported the invasion. If it wasn't so, Greece would have gone to war with Turkey.

 

I didn't say the coup in Cyprus was supported by the Greek Junta ... I said it was led by the Greek Junta.

You call coming to Cyrpus to save the lives of the TC and preventing Greece from conquering the whole island an "excuse"? I have seen enough crap from you. Don't bother me with any more of it.

 

I think we must always remember, when studying Cyprus, where 80 percent of the population was Greek, and 20 percent Turkish ... that Diversity Is Strength.

 

It's too late now.

 

There were Greek officers on Cyprus during the time that the Turkish Cypriots were ethnically cleansed.
Turkey demanded they must leave. The Greeks refused. And so the Turks were in their RIGHT to invade.
And so they did.

It's the Greeks that go like... but we had a coup, so it wasn't our fault.
As if the coup was done by none Greeks. lol

 

Excuse me, according to the treaty with Britain, the Greek military were on Cyprus for years. Turkey didn't demand that they leave, because they had no right to demand that.

The coup was an internal affair, and the junta in Athens backed it because they thought Washington would want to get rid of the president since he was friendly with the Soviet Union. The CIA tried to assassinate him many times.

If you think Turkey was right, then obviously you have nothing against invading foreign countries and ethnically cleansing populations. Turkey always wanted to grab a part of Cyprus, and it used the coup as an excuse - with the blessings and help from Kissinger. If Kissinger didn't threaten the Junta, Greece would have gone to war with Turkey.

 

How can you say that Greece wanted to conquer Cyprus, when four fifths of the population wanted to unite with Greece. Don't you believe in majority rule?

 

“Majority rule”? Now ain't that funny. You claim the majority of Cypriots wanted to be united with Greece.

FIRST of all, it is not a stretch of any imagination that the majority of the population were Greek Cypriots. So do you think “majority rule” represented Cyprus as a nation or strickly the GC's? And what was Cyprus anyway? An independent nation or a Greek vassal?

SECOND If “majority rule” is the yardstick of Democratic, geo-political governing then why are you complaining? Now that the island has been split Greek Cypriots can tally close to 100% of the population of “Cyprus”. Are you not pleased?

Third Now that Northern Cyprus is a de facto sovereign state unto itself, the 100% Greek Cypriots of Cyprus are truly a majority and if “majority rule” is still wont of Democratic principles then why (oh why!) do they insist on flying the fake Cypriot flag … and instead, just put their 100% majority rule into effect and become part of Greece as you so proudly claim? I think “duh” is in order.

 

Doesn't matter. As soon as the Greek military was there, and the ethnic cleansing happened....
The Greeks ignored the demands to stop and leave, and so Turkey had full rights to intervene.

Let's be very clear here. The Greeks / Greek Cypriots started the ethnic cleansing.
The Greeks always wanted to grab all of Cyprus. They got a word for it even.
No coup was used as an excuse. The Turks were appalled that Greeks were ethnic cleansing.
Signed agreement gave them full rights to put an end to it.
So sorry for you, the Greeks and Greek Cypriots that you couldn't ethnically cleanse the Muslims.
And are left with less than they starting position.
Do note: they were warned about it. They ignored it. It's all their fault!

 

... consequently .....

Ahhhhhhhhhh, sweet justice!

 

Here is a little something I put together to make it easier to understand.

 

No, let's be clear here. The Greek Cypriots always wanted freedom from Britain and to unite with Greece. Winston Churchill had promised to give them freedom in WWII and to let them unite with Greece, but he lost the election in Parliament.

Turkey who always had expansionist dreams of restoring its empire, even if it means ethnic cleansing the indigenous populations, (as we have seen with the Kurds and now in Syria), decided to use the 20% minority Turks, to invade and occupy over 1/3 of Cyprus with the help of Henry Kissinger.

The people who were ethnically cleansed in Cyprus were not the Turks. They were the Greeks living in the occupied areas of Cyprus and their homes were stolen and given to Turks from the mainland, while they were thrown into refugee camps.

This is why no nation in the UN other than Turkey, recognizes the Turkish occupied area of Cyprus.

 

According to the German tabloid Bild, German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) findings indicate that the Turkish government purposely incited riots by planting members of its security services among crowds of migrants.

The BND accuses Turkish forces of intermixing with migrants along the border and posing as migrants themselves, throwing rocks and other missiles at Greek forces in an effort to incite riots. Turkey denies it. Oh well, what else is new? At least thankfully, Turkey is busing back the migrants and quarantining them, because of the virus.

https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland...urm-auf-griechische-grenze-69663368.bild.html

 

Then why do you persist in claiming it was the Turks who wanted to expand and so invaded?

Yet they never invaded Cyrpus. Greece did. Your hypothesis is very weak.

As I recall it was the UN that insisted upon an “in-place” cease-fire that determines the post-war frontier.

Where is this ethnic cleansing and occupation of GC homes? I guess you've never heard of Famagusta? Do you not know what that is, where it is, and what it signifies? I have a Greek Cypriot friend from Famagusta who has been living here ever since the war and he disagrees with everything you've said. Famagusta is a ghost city and he puts the blame squarely on Greece.

Australia, Germany, France, and the U.S. all have embassies in Northern Cyprus.

“Grease”. I wonder why it is called Greece? A lingering, ancient, social practice perhaps? And then there is the perpetual Islamic opposition. Palestine vs. Israel, Macedonia vs. Greece, Irak vs. the U.S., Bosnia vs. the Serbs, Iran vs. the U.S., Syria vs. the U.S. The U.N. - such a noble endeavour that lost its fortitude and has chosen to bend over in the face of intimidation. "Grease" indeed.

 

The Greek and Greek Cypriots were most deffo ethnically cleansing Muslim Cypriots first.
Rather lame to try to rewrite history at this point.

 

Oh, and here I thought all those tanks and soldiers were Turkish. Thanks for setting me straight on that one.

Kissinger told Echevit to stop, otherwise they would have taken the whole island.

This is from Wikipedia, and it makes everything you wrote null and void:

Turkish invasion of Cyprus - Wikipedia

Around 150,000 people (amounting to more than one-quarter of the total population of Cyprus, and to one-third of its Greek Cypriot population) were expelled from the occupied northern part of the island, where Greek Cypriots constituted 80% of the population.​

The Turkish occupied area isn't recognized so that doubtful. You're probably thinking of consulates?

The Italians gave the name Greco to one of the Hellenic Tribes, and it stuck. Robert Graves in the 'Greek Myths', thinks it's because they worshipped a grey goddess. I disagree though, I think it's because of the hair color, since most Greeks are ashy blond when young and ashy brown later on.

As for their official name it's 'Land of the Hellenes', since they are the children of the god Helen. They refer to themselves as Romans though from the Eastern Roman Empire, and that's what they're known as throughout the Mediterranean.

Macedonia is a territory within Greece. Those who want to call themselves Macedonians speak a Bulgarian/Slavic language, and they came into the territory in the 6th century which would be 1,000 years after Alexander the Great. They aren't Muslims though, except for Skopji, but I might be wrong. The pressure though I'm sure comes from the Muslims for expansionist reasons.

 

Don't be silly. Turkish reaction to the INVASION of Cyprus BY THE GREEK cannot by any sense be called an “invasion” in the intrusive sense. Examples:

* American attack into Irak 2003 …. AN ILLEGAL AND INTRUSIVE INVASION.

* American attack into Normandy 1944 … a LIBERATION.

You can play with the terms if you like but the point here is obvious. The Greeks ILLEGALLY INVADED Cyprus, the Turks LIBERATED Cyprus.

Never mind Kissinger. Turkey might have taken the whole island in order to dislodge the Greek invaders, yes but they respected the UN decree to halt. Is that a problem? One thing is very clear and that is the Greek forces were dead set on taking the whole island and would have done so if Turkey hadn't stopped them. A clear-cut case of 'good guys' and 'bad guys'.

Wikipedia is probably one of the most distrustful sources of information on the internet. You can follow it if you like. Me? No. If you insist upon taking their word for it then OK, just read my first comment above.

NOTE that you said, “were expelled from the occupied northern part of the island” which is approximately 100 km from mainland Turkey. I call that logical and convenient. By the way, it is nearly 1,000 km from mainland Greece to Cyprus just in case your geography is weak.

You're probably right.

Yes, I know all of that. I was only making a jab at Greece and an off-topic pun.

This is false. It is clear (and you know it) that I spoke of countries, not states/provinces/territories. Where's Athens and Georgia? Between Alabama and South Carolina? Macedonia is a country whose capital city is Skopje. There is a territory called Monkeydonia in the north of Greece too. I have been to both.

THE BOTTOM LINE: Cyprus was a peaceful, lovely island where the Turkish Cypriots were mostly discriminated against by the ever-racist, ethnic-oriented Greeks/Greek Cypriots. War, you say? Invasion, you say? Population shift, you say? Housing discrepancies, you say? Political chicanery, you say? Yes! All of that is true! Thanks to the invasion by Greece to commandeer the whole island and toss out the Turkish Cypriots … it is all true!

On a very personal note, I have been to both Northern Cyprus and South Cyprus through 'the green line' in Nicosia. I have been across the Greek borders to and from Turkey and Macedonia. I have travelled extensively around Albania, Bulgaria and the whole of the former Yugoslavia. My personal experience leaves me with no doubt that if I were to assign the title “good guys” to any of them the Greeks would fail to make my list.

One more observation. You pride your motivation against Turkey's liberation of Cyprus based (in great part) over the low population-percentage of Turkish Cypriots as compared to the Greek Cypriot population but at the same time you abominate the Turks for levelling the balance by introducing more Turks from the mainland. One would assume the high population of Turks in the north today satisfy your percentage-conscience concerns and that you'd now be more sympathetic to the foundation of a Republic of Northern Cyprus. Well?

 

How about facts instead of Turkish propaganda:

According to the transcript with Kissinger, Turkey always had designs on invading and grabbing part of Cyprus - as it did. The Greeks never invaded, and whatever troops were on the island were there by treaty - and they never fought. Also according to the transcript the Cypriots fought very well, and the arms came from Fatah in Palestine.

 

The wicked and nefarious Americans Invaded Vichy France in 1944,
having occupied England prior to this invasion. They were then to
occupy West Germany, where they remain to this day.

America liberated Iraq from the Arab world's only Totalitarian regime
which had illegally invaded Iran and Kuwait and developed WMD's
which were deployed against the Kurds and Iranians.

 

Erdogan had buses take the migrants away from the border, since many of his soldiers and migrants had the coronavirus. The camp was burned, and no one knows where they were taken. There are no pictures of the quarters or anything else. Personally, I think Erdogan is weaponizing the infected migrants for some political and territorial gain.

Turkey has been sending migrants to Northern Epirus near the Greek border for weeks now. Northern Epirus had always been part of Greece and was grabbed by Albania during Greece's civil war - so its population is predominantly Greek. Erdogan probably feels since the Islamic migrants couldn't occupy and retake Greece through the Evros, they will do so through the Albania border.

 

A little background here:

The Peloponesus gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire in the early part of the 19 century. Little by little other Greek inhabited areas began freeing themselves from the Ottomans, and uniting with Greece. The only Greek inhabited area that hadn't done so was Cyprus because it was under Britain and was part of its lifeline.

Churchill promised to give Cyprus to Greece at the end of WWII, but he was voted out of office. Greece at the time was in a civil war, and Britain feared having Cyprus unite with an unstable Greece, so they refused to hand it over as promised. When things were settled, Greece took the situation of Cyprus to the UN, since the people of Cyprus wanted their freedom from Britain and unity with Greece.

Seems that Thingamabob doesn't believe in majority rule and/or democracy.

 

Then you have nothing against genocide and ethnic cleansing for territorial gain? Would you say the same if the Greeks had ethnically cleansed the Turks from Thrace, since the Treaty of Lausanne only allows 25 thousand to remain, and today there are 100 thousand?

If what you're saying is true, then why is it that in the Lausanne Treaty half a million Greeks were allowed to remain in Constantinople, yet were forced out in a government organized pogrom, while in the same treaty only 25 thousand Turks were allowed to remain in Thrace, yet there are now 100 thousand and yet the Greeks haven't kicked them out?

I could care less about your personal notes. People might not like Armenian or Jews, it doesn't mean they have a right to kill them. My grandson loves Turkey and has friends there, yet he doesn't dare speak Greek. The Turks though come to Greece all the time and even get baptized secretly, and no one bothers them - even though their jets keep flying over and threatening Greece.

You should read the book by the American Consul General Horton of Smyrna: The Blight of Asia. He only quotes from foreigners and what they observed when the Christians were being massacred. As he said to a Turkish official: "Yes I feel for the Turkish farmer, but not when they're slitting throats."

​

http://www.hri.org/docs/Horton/hb-title.html​

What you're saying is that nations have a right to kill and ethnically cleanse populations in order to change the demographics for their own territorial gain?

 

What an exaggerated and ABSURD conclusion about what "I have nothing against”.

Completely irrelevant to the situation in Cyprus.

Hmmmmm. That's not a very nice thing to say.

I could care less about the personal relationships of your grandson or the fact that you have one.

I should read a book? I am from Sweden and I have been involved in translating original documents from Latin and ancient Greek, written by peoples of those regions including the Turks. They all faced primitive, blood-thirsty Vikings and their chronicles depicted my ancestors as such. But hey, we are gentle, well-educated people today and I do not think my marauding ancestors have much to do with the daily lives of Greeks, Italians, Turks, or Cypriots today. So take your book of some historical (or revised) event and put it back on the shelf.

Did I mention that my ex-father-in-law was a Swedish captain in a UN peacekeeping unit in Cyprus? Would you like to know what he said about the Greeks and Turks? No, I am sure that you “could care less” about what he had to say.

My oh my. I never said anything like that. Increasing the population of the indigenous people (THE TURKISH Cypriots) by allowing people of the mainland settle in is neither “killing” nor conducting “ethnic cleansing”. It was you who introduced the population percentage of GC's and TC's and used the difference to support a majority wish for Cyrpus to be incorporated into Greece. Do you fail to see that increasing the population of Turks in Cyprus appeals to your own equation of “majority” logic? Shame on you for flipping your own argument. I know that you “could care less” about my opinion (personal or otherwise) but I honestly believe that your imagination is much too much unfettered.


NOTE: The Republic of Northern Cyprus is a fact and Skopje is the capital city of Macedonia. Greeks ought to take their noses out of it, mind their own business and take care of their domestic problems ….. of which there are MANY!