Military clashes between Pakistan and India!

Discussion in 'Asia' started by Mandelus, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    As usual I am wondering why as an American I need your approval for the US election system

    And it is a system

    100 years ago when Arizona was a territory instead of a state it did not get to vote for president either

    Go figure

    I guess you could say we have been a horrible country for a long time
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Jeanette, I've yet to see proof an F16 was shot down. Proof would be the wreckage of the aircraft which India hasn't provided. I'm not a big NYT's fan but no media outlet that I know of has shown actual proof.
     
  3. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Donor

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    And the Indian MiGs were also upgraded. The original technology for both aircraft were only about 10 years apart. It really came down to the experience of both pilots if in fact an F16 was shot down. I see no proof of it yet.
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And we supported terrorist groups like the KLA even though they were harvesting body parts of Serb prisoners - not to mention the Nazis in Ukraine. The German hospitals noticed the drop in body organs during that war. Anyway it's always good to look at the twig in one's own eye, rather than the splinter in the other person's eye.

    Did we give up the Southern states? Isn't it a little hypocritical of us to tell others to break up their country, when we fought a war in which more Americans died than the combined deaths in all of our other wars.
    .
    As for Puerto Rico, they never wanted to be free but are they being pressured now to do so? I wonder?

    I recall a time when Puerto Rico was the most populated place on earth. They would come to New York and either work or collect welfare checks which were higher than anywhere else. LaGuardia airport on Friday night was packed with Puerto Ricans as they headed home for the weekend.

    But it was a more civilized time, so to solve the problem in NYC, industries were given incentives to move to Puerto Rico. Once they had jobs, they moved back - after all who would want to live in wet and cold NYC and not in a tropical paradise. And that's exactly what Puerto Rico turned into.

    What's going on now I have no idea. What went wrong?




     
  5. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    1. seriously, I said EU as medieval Europe not MODERN EU. take a hint.
    2. read the original post, he was refering to suicide bomber, not bomb or grenade
    3, yes there are suicide in military warfare, but suicide bomber that specifically target civilians in order to instill fear and terror are 20th century thing. again read hes post and the entire thing rather than just pieces of it.
    4. modern bomber use electronic to instantly trigger the detonation of the bomb, before electronic age, even if someone want to use bomb as suicide tactic, they couldn't get the timing right, and often failed.

    yes and I do have a Phd in EE
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  6. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    you can't find it, can't you. sino-pak relationship start several decades ago.
     
  7. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    sound like fear mongering, still waiting on your link about China world domination.
     
  8. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I cant speak about the KLA but china is definately harvesting bpdy parts from territories they control

    And if the control more territory they will have more captive political prisionsers to harvest from
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  9. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    It would take many links to edecate you about the chinese menace

    And you are not worth my time

    Unless you are chinese dont say I didnt warn you
     
  10. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more. As long as the US maintains an offensive military presence and continues provocative war games with SK and other regional players, Kim would be a fool to give up nukes as this is the only leverage he has to prevent regime change - the fate of others who gave up nukes and WMD's. I have read other reports from US state and pentagon that the rapprochement and engagement process started independently by Moon Jea-In towards the North is threatening demilitarization of the peninsula so they are concerned about it. Just Imagine!!!! The US is against any peace process where it does not get it's way of forced demilitarization from Kim with absolutely no concessions on sanctions or US military threats.

    And then they wonder why Kim walked away from Trump's phony, staged photo-op - idiots!


    I am not sure I would go so far as to say they are unconcerned about China's military presence, but I would agree that most countries are far more concerned about the possibility of US/China tensions over SCS turning into a real conflict especially with the current US policy of trade wars and sanctions against Chinese interests. As well, China is becoming more determined to push the US influence out of SCS and currently has vastly increased the number of warships in the region and modernized it's missile capability. All things that the US is not likely to take without resistance though it is called the South CHINA sea for a reason.

    I still maintain that whoever controls central Asia will be the world's next empire. I think all the great powers know this and we are witnessing elements of and existential struggle over land and resources. Russia and China have interior lines to those resources while the very thing that protects the US will be it's weakness - Isolation in fortress North America.

    The question is will the US accept it's position of weakness and being eclipsed as the world's only superpower peacefully through negotiation, or will it be more war and destruction? If the current posturing is any indication, I think the answer is pretty clear.

    This does seem to be the case. China has been willing to enter into negotiations with other nations.
    The joint agreement on fossil fuel resources with the
    Philippines would be one example of this. Also China is expanding trade with other regions and shows no indication of attacking anyone weaker than itself for resources. They appear to be a purely trading nation. Which is why the US is waging economic war I suppose.
    [/quote]
    Washington has been doing the same thing in the Balkans with China's Belt and Road initiative and Russia's Southstream pipeline. Both would have brought money, jobs and commerce to the countries in Europe that needed it the most, but instead the government leaders were either coerced not to allow them to proceed, or they were overthrown.
    [/QUOTE]

    Yup, US is trying to use it's economic might to halt Chinese and Russian ambitions all over the globe. This can only lead to more instability, conflict and suffering around the globe. Hopefully the current moment of insanity will pass and more sane and sedate leadership will come to the one player that will not negotiate except through force and threats - constantly having to have it's own way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  11. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Certainly China has it's problems. The Communist regime (which is not really Communist except in the eyes of folks who don't know what Communism is) is not the kind of government I would wish for but neither is the US corporate oligarchy.

    I would argue that the Chinese are pragmatic and trade-based and want to create a alternative to western trade domination which is what the US finds so threatening not it's imaginary quest for military domination.

    It is almost inevitable that with it's interior lines to central Asian trade routes, that China will eclipse the US as a global hegemon.

    The question is will the US accept this peacefully or will it push the world towards conflict and war.

    What do you think?
     
  12. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sometime there has to be trust and the Indians have given me no reason not to trust them. If they said they gave proof to others of the Paki jet being shot down, then I find no reason not to believe them. In contrast, the Pakistani's have shown themselves to be untrustworthy simply by harboring terrorists. Frankly I wouldn't believe anything they say.

    Why would the Chinese want to control more territory when they have never been an aggressive culture, but rather a defensive one? Also how do you know they harvest body part, although I wouldn't doubt it since their political system is indifferent to individual rights? I did read that the North Koreans actually pay their government to work in Russia, and that compared to China they see it as a dream job.
     
  13. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not with Bolton at the helm. He didn't want a peace deal with Kim, and when Trump went ahead with the meeting Bolton popped up and added demands - and that ended that.
     
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  14. ashdoc

    ashdoc Active Member

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    India still flying the old mig 21s in the twentieth century will come under heavy criticism after this , and the western arms lobby must be scenting a big fighter plane deal . But India claiming an F 16 hit lessens the chances of F 16 winning the contest as it's reputation suffers in India .
     
  15. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Bush boasted there would be spoils from Iraq, but my understanding is that the Chinese actually ended up with the best oil deals.

    Check out this thread--quite a few are in it:
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-poll-charting-ones-political-compass.550260/

    IMO, most of our mainstream media. It is the topics they choose and the belligerent way in which they present them that has me concerned. They role model disrespect for other countries...and almost any war can be made into a "good" (ie, profitable) war by the elites I mentioned above.

    I am not familiar with laser scanning of food. Although some GMO cropping could be beneficial if done with care, IMO a corporation like Monsanto, which has been bankrupting traditional farmers and attempting a rights grab of basic plant food genomes, is not the one to do it:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/genet...-death-and-destruction-of-agriculture/5319797

    Vaccinations can cause harm in some rare cases (IMO, when a young child is in a major growth spurt), and the government has a fund to provide some compensation in such cases--but IMO parents that don't provide immunizations for their children should
    be prosecuted.

    Frankly, I would rather see you argue to the point rather than attempt to box other posters into some sort of "crazies" category you've worked out for yourself.
     
  16. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wot were the demands?
    IMO North Korea, all by its lonesome self, could scuttle the entire
    Nuclear Non Proliferation concept. I read they worked on a Syrian
    nuclear program so they aren't adverse to giving the technology
    and maybe even the actual nukes to other countries.
    In the meanwhile China and Russia have supported North Korea.

    We talk about it not being America's role to be a policeman. In which
    case we must ask, "then who?"
    Don't mention the UN - this is not funny.
    I would have liked a firmer America. North Korea wouldn't have got
    to this stage. If America repudiates the policeman role then we shall
    see Taiwan, Japan, Sth Korea, Phillipines, Brunei and Indonesia go
    nuclear overnight. Then nuclear weapons will become a staple of
    every conflict.
    Be careful what you wish for.
     
  17. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I think if china’s mercantilism strategy succeeds they will treat the inferior nations much worse than America ever has

    Because they treat their own citizens much worse than the far less powerful American government treats people

    The complete takeover of the south china sea is just one example of how china will rule the lesser countries

    China is using its economic and military power to bully all its neighbors into submission

    In part the tensions in Korea are part of the chinese plan to drive the US out of asia

    Because kim is just a junkyard dog at the end of china’s leash
     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Hina is quite aggressive by nature

    Thats how china came to be the china we see today instead of one of 50 different peoples in 50 seperate states

    And force is what the chinese dictatorship uses to stay in power

    If libs think America is bad you aint seen nuthing yet till if or when china takes over
     
  19. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    As usual I have every right to show you the bad issues of your country and I never asked you for any approval or demanded one from your side!

    Decades long the US and people like you plaid the head teacher towards the rest of the world, including all to often to submit to your will with it ... and these times are one and all times over and will never come back!
    And more as that ... it is amazing how less many Americans know about own history and / or believe nonsense ... and / or have a somehow arrogant behavior of "because we are Americans, we can do what we want, but no one else"! Time to show that this is wrong and that this US behavior and thinking is the main reason why there is so much hate against the US in the world.

    A little bit oof topic, but a good example I can still remember how you personally agreed with this faked complaining of Donald Trump against these evil Euros to fullfill this 2% of military spending what only few do... with all this following BS blabbering.
    The reality and real fact that the US under former President signed a binding treaty in Wales that these 2% have to be fullfilled from 2024 on by every NATO member is totally ignored. To say it in words which your President and you may understand better: Deal is Deal and this Deal still exists and so you Americans have to follow this deal and to shut up with your rediculous demanding and lies at this topic here!
     
  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree

    Because I am not going to accept lectures about our domestic politics from foreigners who do not have Americas best interests in mind and do not know as much about us as you think you do

    Who we elect president and how we govern ourselves is none of your business
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  21. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    They announced themselves in their China 2025 plan. They then had misgivings about making their intentions known.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/12/cra...e-revealing-its-2025-plan-was-a-bad-idea.html

    Their plan might not be military domination but economic.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...0e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.3dee8dc5ff4a

    Their man made islands are a threat and it should be determined what their intentions are.
    https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/...e/news-story/84aa8664ef1f147d704b8f1e78e62516

    China has never before wanted to conquer overseas lands, they never had the navy to do so and they tried expanding into neighboring regions, they just weren't successful or they were kicked out. At one time they controlled Korea and much of Vietnam.
     
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  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    I guess we agree that we disagree too....

    Because I am not willing to accept anymore ...

    - An American Head teacher towards topics depending to may country like for example the refuegee crises and how we handle our issues...
    - An American Fake News Bombardment of a total idiot in the White House and its fans ... including these half-truths and what Trump calls "alternative facts"!
    - An American hypocrisy to see only the mistakes of others and never their own ... or only those of opponents but never of friends
    - An American one-sidedness, arrogance and ignorance for all topics that go beyond the US border
    - An American impudence to make demands towards others that mean to submit own interests under these of the US ... including this hypocritical incomprehension, if it does not happen!
    - An American lacking knowledge and half knowledge about topics, from which often enough idiotic American opinions, views, reactions and actions arise.

    And in this context, you should also start to point not only with your fingers on evil others who are more likely to belong to the opponents ... but then also to point to the evil things of others who are not among the opponents or even to rate their evil deeds with flimsy reasons as good!
    In short ... if you are quite justified pointing to Tibet in China, then do not forget to point to the Palestinians in the West Bank in Israel as well ... and not come up with that trivial excuse on terrorism, just because Israel = friend!
     
  23. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I dont know about germany today

    But untill the breakup of the soviet union the best interests of germany and America were much the same

    whether you know it or not America means you no harm

    A nuclear armed Iran will make demends on you as well as us

    And north korea wants more than total domination of south korea and japan

    If America is forced to pull out of asia it will have a destabilizing affect that will harm euros too

    But we seem to differ strongly on many issues

    Such as the man made global warmuping hoax

    So maybe you think you are better off with the russians and chinese who care nothing about the environment
     
  24. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    lol so you can't find any link, everything is base on your fear mongering, you believe they gonna conquer and dominate the world. its even beyond fox news far right, its so far right, that make far right look like lefty. if you want convince somebody at least put up some credible link say china want to conquer and dominate the world.
     
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I think we had better elect a Democratic President. Dems are pragmatists and willing to let either Russia or China have their expensive "empire" in Asia while we just make money off the situation. Repukes are ideologues who think it's still several thousand years ago and territory still matters. (Look at the one guy saying the Chinese harvest organs; shades of slaves from the provinces) If Trump stays in office, the Internet will be done on smoke signals by 2024 after the Atomic war because the Chinese ambassador said he had small hands.
     
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