Military Ribbon Question

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Grey Matter, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    The US provides a medal/ribbon to a service member injured in combat, but has no posthumous medal/ribbon for a member that has died in the line of duty.

    Curious, is it similar in your country?

    And, does it seem incorrect to you too?
     
  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Depends on the situation in the US. Many receive medals post-death. Some even with the Medal of Honor (there's a long process for that though. Need to make sure it's fully vetted before issuing)
     
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  3. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's the national archives quick site. Feel free to navigate it
    https://www.archives.gov/personnel-records-center/awards-and-decorations
     
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  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Why should they? Anybody injured in the military is considered injured in the "line of duty", it may be if a truck hits them in the motor pool, or in playing a game of weekend football after having a few beers with the buddies.

    I see no reason to have one to be honest. And if they died in the line of duty, it is not like they are going to be able to wear it.
     
  5. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    No one is being awarded a Purple Heart for having their toe run over by a truck in the motor pool or dislocating their shoulder whilst drunk and playing football.

    But hey - if you don't agree, then we disagree, no problem. I think there should be one at the very minimum for a combat death, but probably also for training & other operational deaths.
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    We already have one for the former. A ribbon for the latter is utterly ridiculous.

    Once again, when would somebody wear one? I see it as utterly senseless to great a military award that can only be worn by a corpse.

    It makes as much sense as making a law dictating criminal sentences for suicide.
     
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  7. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    You may be missing my point, by a lot. By your argument here then, and do please correct me if I’m misunderstanding your point, there’s no point in awarding any posthumous ribbon, bronze star, silver star, cmh: because the servicemember is dead and can’t wear it anyway. That’s what you’re saying, or is it?
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure of that.
     
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  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Those are all awards that can be earned by anybody, they are specifically made to be worn by those who earned them while alive. That somebody may have died when they earned it or afterwards is irrelevant.

    We have only had 1 award ever made in the history of the military that was for somebody who was deceased. That was the Four Chaplains' Medal, and was literally created as a variant of the Medal of Honor to be shared by 4 individuals.

    Quite literally, during WWII 4 Army Chaplains were on a ship crossing the Atlantic when it was torpedoed by a U-boat. These individuals ministered to those and gave aid and comforted them as the ship sank. 2 Protestant, 1 Jewish and 1 Roman Catholic Chaplain worked together as they could to lift the spirits of others, and died when the ship went down. It was petitioned that they be given the Medal of Honor, but because they did not die in combat they were not eligible. So Congress created a 1 time award, equal to the CMoH in stature, awarded to only those 4 individuals.

    An award that is only given to those who are dead is one of the silliest things I have ever heard of. And trust me, serving as long as I have and through 6 Presidential Administrations, I have heard some whoppers.
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    For those of us old enough to remember MASH, Frank Burns was awarded one for getting a shell fragment in his eye.

    An egg shell fragment.
     
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  11. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    A lot of military families have shadow boxes for their service member that will remain displayed and/or passed down through the generations after the service member passes. A posthumously awarded medal can be added to a shadow box to give a more complete picture of their career. Pretty sure any military family would appreciate such a thing which is why they would do that sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  12. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thanks for your service brother. I also served from Nov 7, 1983 through Nov 7, 1987 as a Pershing Missile Crewmember. So I'm familiar with the sometimes bogus nature of of getting a ribbon. I got my first Army Achievement, ribbon for I can't even remember what and was then awarded an Oak Leaf for it because I, "... brought a severely deficient NBC room up to standards..." It was ridiculous, I told my BC so. He said tough, you're getting it anyway. Room might not have been the word, but that's what it was and all I did was submit a DD form to request about a dozen manuals we were supposed to have as part of the kit. After I submitted the form I asked how long it'd take before the manuals would show up and was told not to worry about it since the Ft. Sill Pershing Battalion was a support Battalion we'd likely never get them. So stupid.... Like it'd cost the DOD too much to send me a dozen manuals for NBC stuff. Pissed me off actually. One of my buddies that stayed in calls them Army Acheesement medals.

    I'm still sticking to my opinion that a service member killed in combat ought to get a ribbon for the purpose Nightmare515 points out above. I reckon it's already even got a design and it's called a gold star: an honor no one wants.

    https://www.hopeforthewarriors.org/...-how-is-it-different-from-a-blue-star-family/

    My four years included these participation trophies: made it through basic & ait, went to PLDC, went 3 years without an Article 15, Cheesed twice.

    My Ribbons.png

    What are yours?

    You can use this site to build a png image - it's pretty sweet and puts them in the proper order for you

    https://www.medalsofamerica.com/build-your-ribbons-rack
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of a military award is for those who are alive to wear them.

    I simply see no point to make an award that can only be given to a corpse.

    And an award given just because somebody died? About as worthless as the "Good Conduct" awards.

    Here, you get an award for not getting into trouble.
     
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  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh hell, I can not even remember them all anymore.

    When I left the Marines in 1993, I had a grand total of 4. 2 Good Conducts, 2 Sea Service Deployments, a National Defense, and one other I forget what it was.

    Now, I think I am at 14 or so individual ribbons. I think the last count was 7 Army Achievement Medals, GWOT Service and GWOT Campaign, Army Good Conduct, Army Reserve Service (the same as Good Conduct), and several others ranging from NCO School to Army Deployment (plus all those I had from the Marines). I would have to pull up my ERB or pull my old Class A out of storage to actually look them all up.

    And no, not everybody killed in combat gets an award. Everybody injured in combat gets one, if they live or if they die. And the vast majority of them live.

    I just see an award only for somebody that died as silly. And the last thing the family of somebody who died is going to think about is "Oh great, they got an award just because they died".
     
  15. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Nightmare515 @Mushroom
    I believe the U.S. posthumously awards a Purple Heart to service members killed by enemy action.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does.

    But the award is for anybody wounded in combat, if they die does not matter.
     
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  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My grandpa got one (and sent home) after messing up his knee playing volleyball or hunting tigers (i forget which, but as a clerk in the AAF (Army Air Force), that was what he did most of the time, and was the most action he saw) in southern Asia in WW2. He was technically in a combat zone, its just that the Gurkha were doing all the fighting there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  18. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I joined the Army for a 3 year active term in 1974. Since the combat mission in Viet Nam was over, I did not receive a National Defense Ribbon. After AIT I served with the 25th ID at Schofield Bks, HI. As I was being discharged, I received a Good Conduct Medal for being lucky enough not to get caught at my youthful mischief. Didn't need a guide to locate my one ribbon, lol.

    I vicariously take pride in son's ribbons, however. He served in the Marine Corps and saw action in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His ribbons ...

    Garrett's ribbons (2).jpg
     
  19. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    I believe you are correct and that is part of my gripe I guess. I think there should be a posthumous gold star award. That's it. I'm pretty sure Mushroom disagrees with me on this.
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    Yes I do, because it makes absolutely no sense.

    In the Army, a second award is signified by an Oak Leaf Cluster. In all other branches, a Gold Star signifies a second award.

    So what exactly is the purpose of this?

    Remember, awards are given for those who are alive. That some of them may die in getting them does not matter, they are made for those who serve, not as a "gimmie" for corpses.

    I disagree with the lunacy of creating or presenting a military award simply because somebody assumes room temperature.
     
  21. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    How's your son doing? I hope that purple heart wasn't earned too dearly.
     
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  22. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Don't know about other states, but where I live all veterans' closest survivor will get a flag, and their burial paid for by the VA if the survivors can't afford one; not much of one, but better than getting dumped in the indigents' trenches or sold to a training hospital for practice. My mother has one flag, my grandmother on my father's side had 4. Those come from the local American Legion posts, not the military.
     
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  23. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It almost cost him his life. We almost lost him on the battlefield. It's a miracle he wasn't blown to bits by the IED that hit him.

    Today he lives well. He is successful in his career and has a beautiful family. I'm very proud of him.

    :salute: :flagus:
     
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  24. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Correct.
     
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  25. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don't lecture me about why awards are given brother, especially when you are dead wrong. The US awards our service members plenty of posthumous ribbons. So don't come at me with, "Remember, awards are given for those who are alive." because you are simply wrong on this. Wrong - get it? You are wrong.

    At this point you are now, imo, disrespecting the intent of my question in this thread. Simply because somebody assumes room temperature? That was never my proposal or assertion.
     

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