mini ice age could be on the way and it’s going to get very, very cold

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Josephwalker, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that?

    Mind you the opposite is true

    Will Ye or nil Ye the truth is that the energy market is in transformation to renewables and this is being driven by the simple factor of price. Renewables are cheaper than unsubsidised fossil fuels. The rest of the world is realigning to this while America is held back by antique attitudes and non scientific thinking. No tax incentive is going to keep manufacturing in America while other countries are reaping the benefits of cheaper electricity
     
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  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And if tens of thousands of scientists are saying something which turns out to be correct?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    What extreme sacrifice?
     
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  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Wtf??

    Have I again found a denialist who does not understand "average"

    Please tell me I am wrong
     
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  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Those would be your words, here are Judith's words.

    "Recent data and research supports the importance of natural climate variability and calls into question the conclusion that humans are the dominant cause of recent climate change:

    • The hiatus in global warming since 1998
    • Reduced estimates of the sensitivity of climate to carbon dioxide
    • Climate models predict much more warming than has been observed in the early 21st century”
    [/QUOTE]
    And Judith has conveniently, whilst taking money from fossil fuel interests, forgotten to identify what is actually driving the observed change
     
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  6. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? Tens of thousands say man is the primary driver of climate? How many times does this myth need busted before it sinks in to your head?
     
  7. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    And Judith has conveniently, whilst taking money from fossil fuel interests, forgotten to identify what is actually driving the observed change[/QUOTE]

    At least you don't try to claim she's a cult member like others in here do.
     
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes at least that many scientists

    Have you ANY idea of how many scientists are involed in writing the IPCC reports? How many different countries they come from?

    This is no myth. It is science pure and simple and I have been reading and researching the subject for over twenty years now. I have read the (some) of the supporting literature and (most) of the opposing literature. And I say some of the supporting literature because the body of evidence in research papers is vast representing hundreds of thousands of papers in a huge variety of fields from palaeontology to meteorology to ecology and even epidemiology
     
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  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    At least you don't try to claim she's a cult member like others in here do.[/QUOTE]
    How does that affect the science?

    Either the science is correct or it is not

    Now she is only ONE scientist from one country

    This is a breakdown of the scientist who will be involved in the next IPCC report.

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-gender-nationality-institution-ipcc-ar6-authors
     
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  10. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Ok, you're wrong. Sorry that the previous post was too complicated for you.
     
  11. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    See this is where you are completely confused. Very few scientist believe man is the primary driver of climate change while thousands including the greatest "denier" of them all agree man may have some effect in the climate. People such as you tend to lump them into group number one which is completely wrong.

    Excellent explanation of this which I'm sure you won't read.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexep...e-scientists-agree-is-100-wrong/#5eb5fbc63f9f
     
  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    "Where did most of the 97 percent come from, then? Cook had created a category called “explicit endorsement without quantification”—that is, papers in which the author, by Cook’s admission, did not say whether 1 percent or 50 percent or 100 percent of the warming was caused by man. He had also created a category called “implicit endorsement,” for papers that imply (but don’t say) that there is some man-made global warming and don’t quantify it. In other words, he created two categories that he labeled as endorsing a view that they most certainly didn’t."
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm yes by One Alex Epstein author of

    [​IMG]
    Tell me

    What are his academic credentials?

    Mind you it is an opinion piece lacing in academic rigor. Cherry picked and favouring denialist comments as well as focusing on only one author who has researched the topic

    He lambasts politicians whilst ignoring the statement put out by the academic academies
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I think he missed a few

    http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-organizations
    List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations
    The following are scientific organizations that hold the position that Climate Change has been caused by human action:

    1. Academia Chilena de Ciencias, Chile
    2. Academia das Ciencias de Lisboa, Portugal
    3. Academia de Ciencias de la República Dominicana
    4. Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
    5. Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala
    6. Academia Mexicana de Ciencias,Mexico
    7. Academia Nacional de Ciencias de Bolivia
    8. Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
    9. Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
    10. Académie des Sciences, France
    11. Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
    12. Academy of Athens
    13. Academy of Science of Mozambique
    14. Academy of Science of South Africa
    15. Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
    16. Academy of Sciences Malaysia
    17. Academy of Sciences of Moldova
    18. Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic
    19. Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran
    20. Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt
    21. Academy of the Royal Society of New Zealand
    22. Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
    23. Africa Centre for Climate and Earth Systems Science
    24. African Academy of Sciences
    25. Albanian Academy of Sciences
    26. Amazon Environmental Research Institute
    27. American Academy of Pediatrics
    28. American Anthropological Association
    29. American Association for the Advancement of Science
    30. American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
    31. American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
    32. American Astronomical Society
    33. American Chemical Society
    34. American College of Preventive Medicine
    35. American Fisheries Society
    36. American Geophysical Union
    37. American Institute of Biological Sciences
    38. American Institute of Physics
    39. American Meteorological Society
    40. American Physical Society
    41. American Public Health Association
    42. American Quaternary Association
    43. American Society for Microbiology
    44. American Society of Agronomy
    45. American Society of Civil Engineers
    46. American Society of Plant Biologists
    47. American Statistical Association
    48. Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
    49. Australian Academy of Science
    50. Australian Bureau of Meteorology
    51. Australian Coral Reef Society
    52. Australian Institute of Marine Science
    53. Australian Institute of Physics
    54. Australian Marine Sciences Association
    55. Australian Medical Association
    56. Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
    57. Bangladesh Academy of Sciences
    58. Botanical Society of America
    59. Brazilian Academy of Sciences
    60. British Antarctic Survey
    61. Bulgarian Academy of Sciences
    62. California Academy of Sciences
    63. Cameroon Academy of Sciences
    64. Canadian Association of Physicists
    65. Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
    66. Canadian Geophysical Union
    67. Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
    68. Canadian Society of Soil Science
    69. Canadian Society of Zoologists
    70. Caribbean Academy of Sciences views
    71. Center for International Forestry Research
    72. Chinese Academy of Sciences
    73. Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences
    74. Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) (Australia)
    75. Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research
    76. Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences
    77. Crop Science Society of America
    78. Cuban Academy of Sciences
    79. Delegation of the Finnish Academies of Science and Letters
    80. Ecological Society of America
    81. Ecological Society of Australia
    82. Environmental Protection Agency
    83. European Academy of Sciences and Arts
    84. European Federation of Geologists
    85. European Geosciences Union
    86. European Physical Society
    87. European Science Foundation
    88. Federation of American Scientists
    89. French Academy of Sciences
    90. Geological Society of America
    91. Geological Society of Australia
    92. Geological Society of London
    93. Georgian Academy of Sciences
    94. German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina
    95. Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
    96. Indian National Science Academy
    97. Indonesian Academy of Sciences
    98. Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management
    99. Institute of Marine Engineering, Science and Technology
    100. Institute of Professional Engineers New Zealand
    101. Institution of Mechanical Engineers, UK
    102. InterAcademy Council
    103. International Alliance of Research Universities
    104. International Arctic Science Committee
    105. International Association for Great Lakes Research
    106. International Council for Science
    107. International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
    108. International Research Institute for Climate and Society
    109. International Union for Quaternary Research
    110. International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
    111. International Union of Pure and Applied Physics
    112. Islamic World Academy of Sciences
    113. Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities
    114. Kenya National Academy of Sciences
    115. Korean Academy of Science and Technology
    116. Kosovo Academy of Sciences and Arts
    117. l'Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
    118. Latin American Academy of Sciences
    119. Latvian Academy of Sciences
    120. Lithuanian Academy of Sciences
    121. Madagascar National Academy of Arts, Letters, and Sciences
    122. Mauritius Academy of Science and Technology
    123. Montenegrin Academy of Sciences and Arts
    124. National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina
    125. National Academy of Sciences of Armenia
    126. National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic
    127. National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka
    128. National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
    129. National Aeronautics and Space Administration
    130. National Association of Geoscience Teachers
    131. National Association of State Foresters
    132. National Center for Atmospheric Research
    133. National Council of Engineers Australia
    134. National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, New Zealand
    135. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
    136. National Research Council
    137. National Science Foundation
    138. Natural England
    139. Natural Environment Research Council, UK
    140. Natural Science Collections Alliance
    141. Network of African Science Academies
    142. New York Academy of Sciences
    143. Nicaraguan Academy of Sciences
     
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  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ran out of room

    1. Nigerian Academy of Sciences
    2. Norwegian Academy of Sciences and Letters
    3. Oklahoma Climatological Survey
    4. Organization of Biological Field Stations
    5. Pakistan Academy of Sciences
    6. Palestine Academy for Science and Technology
    7. Pew Center on Global Climate Change
    8. Polish Academy of Sciences
    9. Romanian Academy
    10. Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium
    11. Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain
    12. Royal Astronomical Society, UK
    13. Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters
    14. Royal Irish Academy
    15. Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
    16. Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences
    17. Royal Netherlands Institute for Sea Research
    18. Royal Scientific Society of Jordan
    19. Royal Society of Canada
    20. Royal Society of Chemistry, UK
    21. Royal Society of the United Kingdom
    22. Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
    23. Russian Academy of Sciences
    24. Science and Technology, Australia
    25. Science Council of Japan
    26. Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research
    27. Scientific Committee on Solar-Terrestrial Physics
    28. Scripps Institution of Oceanography
    29. Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts
    30. Slovak Academy of Sciences
    31. Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts
    32. Society for Ecological Restoration International
    33. Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
    34. Society of American Foresters
    35. Society of Biology (UK)
    36. Society of Systematic Biologists
    37. Soil Science Society of America
    38. Sudan Academy of Sciences
    39. Sudanese National Academy of Science
    40. Tanzania Academy of Sciences
    41. The Wildlife Society (international)
    42. Turkish Academy of Sciences
    43. Uganda National Academy of Sciences
    44. Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities
    45. United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
    46. University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
    47. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
    48. Woods Hole Research Center
    49. World Association of Zoos and Aquariums
    50. World Federation of Public Health Associations
    51. World Forestry Congress
    52. World Health Organization
    53. World Meteorological Organization
    54. Zambia Academy of Sciences
    55. Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences
     
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  16. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Typical attack the messenger ignore the message. Care to refute how the cook study was dishonestly used to give false numbers?
     
  17. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    I would need to know exactly what it was all these agencies said they agreed with to see the whole picture here. Until then I'm left with an incomplete picture much like the fable of seven blind men and an elephant.

    Your link is error 404
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  18. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    That is not true globally. For some areas that have to import fuel and the import costs are extreme (such as islands), renewables are cheaper. In the USA, which has excess fossil fuel production, renewables are much more expensive than fossil fuels and renewables only exist because of huge govt subsidies and govt mandates.

    I support solar and wind, I think every house in the USA where conditions are appropriate should have wind and solar. I like them because that technology can power a house, there is no distribution system because the energy is generated at the point of use, and the govt does not control the homeowners energy production.

    But its not cheap. It requires batteries, and they have to be replaced every 5-7 years. And the best batteries by far are lead-acid, which are not "green" to manufacture, they are heavy and require transportation. Solar panels weather and break and have to be replaced, electronics occasionally have to be replaced. In many conditions, wind turbines have a shorter life than solar panels and batteries.

    Solar and wind and batteries have not really progressed in 30 years.
     
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  19. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    All good points. My home is off grid solar and I guarantee my electric cost per kwh are higher than people who are on grid.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No I attacked BOTH

    And if the source is suspect then it should be attacked - this is now standard in academia you HAVE to declare any interests

    You would not accept a paper published by "Alternate energy inc" would you?
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Not keeping up the the market are we?

    Many fossil fuels are subsidised which means you are paying more just not directly

    [​IMG]
    At present battery is a huge cost but South Australia is apparently loving thier battery backup since it highly reactive to baseload variances
     
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  23. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    I would look at the info it contained and judge it on that. I would not immediately dismiss it without even hearing what they had to say. See this is why you can't learn and grow. You only listen to those that tell you what you want to hear.
     
  24. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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  25. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Now on your other link. Let's look at it.

    List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations
    The following are scientific organizations that hold the position that Climate Change has been caused by human action:

    It's informative in what it does not say and goes along with the link I gave you quite nicely. It does not say man is driving the climate and it seems editorialized in that there is no exact statement in quotes that these organizations in detail agreed with. Another missing piece of the elephant. Once we can ascertain what that was we will have the elephants trunk so to speak and think it's a snake. Next piece of the elephant is to look at each individual organization and see who they are exactly and what their qualifications are. Are they just a couple of guys with a fancy name? Do they represent a third world country that stands to benefit greatly from a Paris Accord that would fund them in the event of any natural disasters that could be blamed on climate change? Are they even a real organization or a front group? As you can see just posting a very long list is worthless, it's quality not quantity that counts and the elephant list would take forever to verify or disavow. I realize it's easy to just cut and paste a long list like that and say "see, everyone says it so it must be true" but that's poor debate and proves absolutely nothing.
     

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