Minimum wage earners can't afford to live anywhere in America

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by kazenatsu, Jul 15, 2021.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    this isn't the old west where people can just pick a piece of land and live off of it

    heck some places with charge you with vagrancy for even sleeping on a public bench
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    If it's arbitrary and meaningless then why talk about it...abolish the MW...
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Your position is tantamount to expecting all obese people to simply lose weight...
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    My point is it makes no difference what the MW is set at, since it's ALWAYS the minimum wage, anyone earning MW will forever and always have the same issues as people have today...
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    LOL at the preposterous suggestion that the only alternative to wage earning is homelessness.

    Far out FA, that's pretty freaking desperate :D
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you said "Jobs aren't essential for survival. Try again."

    for the poor they are
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, it's even more important for the poor work towards securing other ways of staying alive, which don't depend entirely upon income from low paid jobs. After all, they're the most vulnerable to poverty in older age when they no longer have an income.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    give us some of your ideas on how the poor can live without an income
     
  9. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    With minimum wage increases it will get worse for them. The buying power decreases every time the minimum wage is raised. Look up buying power per state and compare it with minimum wages per state. Increasing the minimum wage is a feel good statement that gets votes from people who haven’t graduated high school and have no knowledge in real world affairs.
     
  10. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You seriously don't know? Have a look around you, consider history, watch the news. Millions of poor folk manage to secure alternative income streams for their old age - and there as many ways of doing it as there are people who've done it.

    If however, you're asking an entirely different question - IOW what you're really asking is how people can make the choice to work towards that end, then you're not interested in answers. Only you know why you ignore the big picture in favour of an entirely irrelevant (because it's entirely personal) detail.
     
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  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Unless they do something about it, of course.
     
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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ah, so now you say they need income again

    every society has some on the bottom, just the reality of it, they work hard, do the best they can do
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    This is about securing non-wage income. The plan you make at the beginning, and stick to throughout your life. The GOAL is to have income streams available to you which don't depend on your ability to work for wages.

    Every First World society has some who want to be 'at the bottom', yes. We're not discussing those unique people, are we?

    Aren't we discussing the regular poor - most of whom will naturally be very invested in securing other sources of income for when they can no longer work, because they are poor and don't want to starve later?
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not everyone makes enough to save, and if they do save, they lose welfare benefits if they get them, catch 22

    my point was there is only so many good jobs, some people will have to do the lower wage jobs, everyone can't have a higher paying job
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious to know in which universe it's possible to o
    How much you save isn't a function of how much you earn, it's a function of how much you spend. If you would be doing it tough on minimum wage, then you will naturally find ways to offset your low income by living with less expenditure (therefore freeing up money to save). If people aren't doing that, they clearly either don't mind doing it tough - or they're not poor enough to need to make that effort.

    Of course. And those lower jobs will go to people who are content to stay at that level. Those who prefer it - and plenty do. But only the individuals themselves can say how/why they're content to work those jobs. Maybe they're rich and looking to keep busy. Maybe they don't mind living hand-to-mouth. Maybe they are poor enough to torque those jobs into financial security by being super frugal. Either way, it's none of our business.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is the problem, inflation in housing prices has made it impossible to just get buy, let alone save
     
  17. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Inflation will typically hit harder on those in the bottom economic rungs...
     
  18. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Unless every person has the identical income, no matter what the pay scales are, you will always have ~20% of the workers earning the lowest incomes. The other 80% and their buying powers mostly determine the cost of living...
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Only if you sit in your high rent individual home in an expensive city, and expect a miracle. And if you're genuinely poor, why on earth would you do that? Even an ant knows that if they're hungry on a regular basis, they need to do something about it. Move to a cheaper nest, team up with other ants to share resources, work harder, become a better skilled ant so the boss ant pays you more.

    Since when did Govts agree to save us from ourselves? At which precise point in history did Govt say that we need to nothing to survive? What caused our Govts to foster an aristocracy-minded sector who expect hard working 'peasants' to do all the icky adapting that they refuse to do? And what makes YOU champion those people, rather than the hard working peasants who are socially responsible enough to live only how and where they can afford?
     
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  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    The real point in letting illegal aliens in. They're not immigrants immigrants immigrate legally they are illegal aliens.

    I digress the real reason for letting them in is to undercut the American worker. People who grow spinach or grapefruits they can't afford to pay teenagers to harvest them because the 750 an hour they need to be legally employed on top of the workman's comp and the insurance and all this other stuff you have to carry on that makes them prohibited the expensive. Making them more expensive by increasing the minimum wage will only ensure that fewer people are employed and outside of aliens and that's the point.

    The reason why we don't do anything about this especially during Democrat rule is because that's their voting base.

    They are trying to increase their voting base but there is an issue Hispanics from old world countries are not woke.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Of course. Just as another 20% will earn the highest incomes.

    The worst thing we can do is eliminate those low income jobs. There are many many people who either need or want those jobs - and they need or want them precisely BECAUSE they're low income/entry level. I know of quite a few people who've sucessfully torqued those jobs into wealth, via a team approach and shared resources. Large family all work these jobs on different shifts (so that the shared household and any children are always covered), live as frugally as POWs, and within a decade they're buying homes for cash. It's essential that they have access to these jobs because they have limited English, limited education, and zero interest in 'careers'. Their intention is to secure property outright, sometimes also a small business, and to retain just enough income to educate the kids etc.

    And yes, this is very much a 'migrant thing'
    . I've yet to encounter white people, born here, who've done this. I'm sure they exist, but they would be a rarity. Either way, the migrant example is the evidence that financial security is possible no matter how low your income.
     
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  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to judge what migrant and other people do in their lives. All people, no matter their origins, are subject to the same issues when it comes to how the economy works for them. The point is there will forever and always be people struggling in the lower rungs of our economy...it's in the math...
     
  23. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the government is redistributing taxpayer money to those people, the taxpayer has every right to judge their spending habits and life decisions.
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Observing cause and effect is NOT judgement. It's the simple recording of data. When you do X and Y, Z happens. It's in the math. Refusing to accept the math, however, is a form of judgement. You're judging those who don't like reality - effectively declaring them some kind of superior being, entitled to exemption from cause and effect. And you're judging those who accept the math, as sufficiently inferior to warrant their fate as handmaidens to your entitled group.

    2) Exactly my point. It's our actions which matter. Our CHOICES.

    3) Yes, and in the First World these are the people who refuse to accept the math. The people who will not do what is required (as those migrants do) to help themselves. And since we know that this is their choice, it's none of our business or concern.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    We're forced to 'judge', because it's not being done by the alleged adults in charge of the money.

    Tax dollars in the hands of Welfare Statists, is like giving a child the key to the candy store.
     
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