Minimum Wage

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by God & Country, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Should maximum prices be put in place?
     
  2. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Likes Received:
    10,504
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I dont want anything. Well except government screwing things up. Why cant the employer and the employee negotiate without interference from government?

    If the employee can only negotiate a wage that requires public assistance, that must say something about the candidate. You make it sound like it's the employers fault that an employee can only earn 3.50 an hour in the labor market.

    We would?

    You are very "victim" in your beliefs. Why is that? Secondly, we are talking wages... or is this a general employment arrangement discussion?
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, you're missing the point.

    It may be what they should do.

    But, doing so does NOT mean successfully being able to support oneself and family.

    You seem to be stuck in this thought process that everyone who is in need of help is in that situation because of something they did.

    What do you think about those in the Carolina's today?

    Should we withhold all support? Should we tell FEMA to not go there?
     
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    it depends; usually however, we allege to subscribe to capitalism and no theoretical limit on markets.
     
    David Landbrecht likes this.
  5. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Likes Received:
    10,504
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So another example of government breaking things they intended to fix.
     
  6. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Likes Received:
    10,504
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem is, many on the left have abandoned personal responsibility for victimization. Nearly everybody has some excuse, why their lot in life has not played out how they wanted. It could be sex or race, like you mention, or it could be a lisp, difficulty in conveying points, intelligence... the list is endless.

    The left believes they can put mechanisms in place, usually with use of government force, to resolve all of these real and perceived injustices. It simply doesn't work.

    Now, back to employment and wages. If the employee is desperate for a job, why? Why are they getting so few offers in the labor market?

    We're going to have to stop pretending PEOPLE don't matter when discussing these issues. Absolutely, their life choices and decisions, should be factored for logical discussion.
     
  7. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    16,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The best thing that could happen for the non-human species of the earth is for us to become extinct.
    It has taken a very long time, but the wildlife people now fully subscribe to the hands-off rules.
    You DO NOT leave food out for animals, other than the practice where some farmers do not cut all their grain, and some steps where we do not interfere with the natural food chain.
    In many areas- it is illegal to leave food out.

    WE are the spoilers, the ones damaging the earth for all species- including ourselves. It is OUR ideas and judgment that are doing that, and the right solution is for us to leave things the hell alone, or try to integrate to the natural world instead of changing it to suit our every whim.
     
  8. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    16,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    If you check back to the time that Houston was hit, you will find a post from me asking everyone to kick in and send help, that I had started with $100 to the Red Cross, and agreed to match that with the next person who contributed. Being hit with a hurricane is hardly something a person chooses to do. Getting too drunk to work for example, IS. Spending your money on tattoos, booze and drugs instead of feeding your family, IS.

    Learn to tell the difference between being in real need of help, and needing o avoid having to work and be responsible.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That last paragraph is where you screwed up.

    The thing you have to recognize about the Carolinas today and about Houston is that they are NOT PREVENTED by the really great ideas you wrote on your business card. So, as YOU point out aid is needed. (Don't tell me about how you solved Houston. We're not talking about solutions yet, because you don't know the problem yet. And, you didn't solve Houston.)

    So, the next step is that there are similar tragedies that are ALSO NOT controlled by the behavior on your business card and that impact smaller groups - down to individuals.

    You say "learn to tell the difference...". But, THAT requires actual contact with each of the individuals who have been impacted - enough contact that their case is understood. This is an activity that EVERY aid group is doing TODAY.

    Beyond that, I'm just going to propose that regardless of the full story of each of these individuals that we "learn" as you put it, I'm not willing to have a government that allows ANY of them die in the street.
     
  10. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    16,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Horse puckey!
    You know neither the rules or grasp the concept.
    The people in the hurricane didn't cause the hurricane, everyone knows that Trump was responsible- because the Washington Post already implicated him, knowing people with your level of wisdom would immediately nod and agree. No doubt he is also to blame for the person that chooses to take shelter under a tree that gets hit by lightning or falls on him.

    And NO, it does not require actual contact. It requires a read on character, and that is surprisingly easy to do IF YOU HAVE THE SKILL. I have developed and been paid to teach that skill, to public school teachers, to classes of Boeing Aircraft executives and many large companies. I had many practicing psychologists in the classes I taught as well- and I am not a psychologist. I've had psychologists say that's impossible, it can't be done- but recognize I was doing it and ask how I learned it. I've had people ask me if I've always been psychic, because they can't figure out how for example I could talk to someone for 10 minutes and accurately describe the character of their spouse that I had never met.

    On my own, for my own purposes in business and life- I realized how important it was for me to read and understand who people were, how they thought, know how they would act, before entering a contract or in any way bringing them into your circle. Know in advance who was trustworthy- and who was a fraud, a manipulator, a user. Took me a very long time to learn how, because I kept thinking it must be complicated- when in fact it's easy and right under your nose all the time. I began teaching this because others kept asking me how I could pick those people in advance, and walk away rather than dive in. This came out of what might be called a re-programming of how one thinks, which I spent many years look for- but once found, learned quickly, then spent three years teaching. I quit teaching because I was tired of people who simply couldn't put down the faulty programming they had used all their lives. They want new knowledge tol fit neatly into what they already think they know, and that is the box that keeps them from learning how to exceed their own limits. As the old saying goes- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink- and you can't make a person understand something that they are not ready for. It's frustrating to try- and not worth the effort until you find a receptive mind. I still teach those people when the opportunity arises.

    We are all limited by what we believe, and that blinds us to things that we can't see with the parameters of our own thinking. Learn to think differently, and those questionable people stand out to you like purple pigs in a horse race.

    People die on the street everyday, from the lack of ability to understand and manage their own lives. NOT because we haven't tried to save them, but because they aren't willing to save themselves. Last year, 72,000 of them died from drug overdose. Another 45,000 died by suicide. Add up the deaths from murders, auto wrecks, tornadoes, hurricanes and accidental causes- and see how that compares.

    The key is in the people themselves- each of us, all of us. NOT together, but individually. How YOU think will control your destiny- happy, miserable successful, failure, rich or poor.

    Stop blaming the world and get your butt in the drivers seat of your own life instead of trying to run someone elses, and things will change- everything will change, for the good. It's just not that big a job- IF you take the responsibility for doing it. Nobody can do it for you, and those who think they can are full of it.. Horse Puckey, that is.

    Go fix the drug problem and show us how to do it. Perhaps you are wiser than all the people and programs that we have thrown billions at over the last 50 years and continue to lose ground with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    From there, you go on to describe how it DOES require contact.

    And, don't try hiding behind the blame that Trump may or may not deserve.

    That's entirely irrelevant.
     
  12. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    16,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You are having a reading comprehension problem, you are incorrectly interpreting what I said instead of paying attention to it.
    You do not need to know the person, or talk to them. You DO need to be able to observe or be aware of the way they conduct themselves- what they do. Actions count, not claims, promises or representations.

    Here's a simple parameter that works similarly. You see somebody doing something that you feel is wrong, perhaps to you. Ask yourself, how would that person have to be thinking for what they are doing to become acceptable behavior?

    It's like reverse engineering. You know that in someway the person has rationalized what they are doing in order to enable themselves to do it. You are asking yourself what that would take- and the answer that tells you how they are thinking. It also tells you a lot about the range of their their values and moral compass. That tells you what other kinds of decisions they would make when it served their purpose.

    You are doing this right now- adjusting thinking to rationalize rejecting the things I have just told you.

    You should also know that when you can do this, it's better if you don't let it show. If you do, it will piss people off. Nobody likes people who can see through their facade.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  13. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,829
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You should be able to hire anyone you want, or not hire anyone you don't want FOR ANY REASON. It is your business, not anyone else's. The employees are not slaves and can quit any time they choose. Employers should have the same right to decide who they want to hire, and who they don't, again, for any reason.
     
    spiritgide likes this.
  14. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,829
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't remember anyone blaming Obama for the Hurricanes that happened on his watch, and there were quite a few.
     
  15. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,829
    Likes Received:
    984
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ahhh, you bring up a great point. So lets end welfare.....Then you take the job or you starve. Fair enough to me.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The issue you are talking about is determining merit that could lead to aid. That's off topic, but let's just play this out for a minute.

    Qualification for aid is something done by officials of the agency (private or public) that might give the aid.

    And, that absolutely does require evaluation of the individual.

    You as a private donor COULD walk down the street and hand dollars to those you think look like they "deserve" it by whatever metric you choose, but that's not how the real world works.

    It's not how Catholic Charities works. It's not how the federal, state and local government works. It's not how individual donors help, because they tend to be smart enough to donate to organizations that have a reasonable chance of measuring need and taking appropriate action in a way that is coordinated with other public and/or private agencies.

    But, as I say, this is off topic, as we were discussing whether each person is so in charge of their lives that no luck (if luck even exists) could cause them to need help.

    You switched from that topic to the topic of how we can help people who need help.
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The main issue here is one of civil rights, of course.

    In America, private enterprise is the method our form of government uses to produce goods and services and provide them to citizens. That is a choice we made. That is how our form of government functions - as opposed to Socialism (wherein the government owns the means of production) or other forms of government.

    It's not acceptable for this method to be exclusive of any portion of our citizenry.

    This is a sound principle that has long been recognized.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So, you agree that the president of the US isn't in control of hurricanes???
     
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Topical Timcast.

     
  20. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,268
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why not
    Other than Democrats, who the heck thought it would work?
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You should have enough respect for America that you would hesitate in comparing us to Venezuela.

    As for setting maximum prices, we do set maximum prices for certain things. We limit the price of public utility contracts with providers - electricity, water, cable, for example.

    When a corporation gets to have a monopoly on some important product or service, the government is more likely to get involved in the pricing. Or, government may take direct action to break up the monopoly, such as with Bell.
     
  22. MAGA

    MAGA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    3,268
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This has nothing to do with a corporate Monopoly.

    This is about a Socialist Government Monopoly.

    Like most Americans, I'm not fooled by feigned naivity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    Baff likes this.
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,473
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ok. Let's help you out here. Under Socialism it is the government that owns the means of production, so saying it has nothing to do with corporations (including monopolies) is ridiculous. As I pointed out, think about utilities.

    Then, one can think about when the US WOULD take action on prices. And, that could very well include regulating prices and/or busting monopolies - as seen in our history.

    The fact that the comparison isn't perfect has to do with the differences between the two systems - that's why you should have more respect for America and how our system works.
    No, you're fooled by the definition of terms.
     
  24. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When the government owns the means of production it takes monopoly control over all the corporations.
    It becomes the uber corporation. Lol.

    The single greatest corporation EVAR.

    If you are trying to break the monopoly power of a corporation, unifying all the corporations into one single body....own goal.
    Epic fail.
    Just truly epic.


    Taking control of the means of production serves one purpose and one purpose only.
    It allows a small minority of the population to take control of the whole country.
    To make the whole country dependent on it.

    Marxism is a revolutionary theory.
    It teaches you how to take over a country.
    Not... how to best run one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    MAGA likes this.
  25. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    43,110
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    We really just need a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage,

    and,

    unemployment compensation at the equivalent to fourteen an hour,

    simply for being naturally unemployed by Capitalism's, natural rate of unemployment in our at-will employment States.
     

Share This Page