Mob of white nationalist ‘Proud Boys’ brutally beat several men: ‘Are you brave now, f*****?!’

Harassment and disturbing the peace.

 

There are Marxist groups in the US whose beliefs encompass, in a very general way, the paraphrases of Marxist beliefs that were offered.

A real Marxist -- I used to be one -- would quibble about a couple of those points -- for instance, "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" is the hypothetical situation under genuine communism in the distant future -- not how socialism is supposed to work, where the principle is different).

More importantly, no Marxist groups that I am familiar with believe that initiating violence at conservative events is a smart move. (At genuine neo-Nazi events, yes. But the Marxists I know are smart enough to be able to distinguish a Republican grandmother from a Klansman.) If anyone is interested, I can provide links to show this.

Marxists believe in organizing the working class to advance its class interests. They believe that this will ultimately result in a 'revolutionary situation' in which the capitalist class will attempt to continue its rule by violence, and that then, a violent revolution on the part of the workers, led by a revolutionary Marxist party, will be justified and possible. In theory anyway, they have nothing against coming to power by getting a majority in peaceful electoins, but they don't think that will be permitted. They would ask Mr Salvador Allende to give an example to prove their point.

The only arguments among Marxists are what attitude to take to 'anti-Fa' -- many of whom -- their anarchist component -- hate Marxists -- more specifically, hate Leninists -- as much as they hate conservatives. Some of these Marxist groups are pretty opportunist and may turn up at anti-Fa events to try to recruit members. And some of them may well initiate or at least take part in violence at things like the Ferguson protests -- violence against the police. (During the Vietnam War and protests against it, there was one group I know about which quite deliberately would bring its naive college-student contacts along to mass protests, and then try to provoke the police into clubbing their contingent -- the idea was that this would 'radicalize' their contacts and turn them into communist recruits. This group is still around.)

But 'anti-Fa' is actually a loose, decentralizedcoalition of radicalized empty-headed young people, not organized Marxists. (Plus, I hope, a police informer in each local group.) They have little ideology, and in fact, are driven by spoiled-bratism and the incoherent leftist view that anyone who is not a leftist is some sort of 'white supremacist', i.e a Nazi. Therefore Republicans are Nazis.

It's the view of political idiots who know little about the real world, no history, have no program for transforming the world ... not of Marxists, who are serious people. There are a few professors in the rotting American academy who have justified their violence -- the kind of professors who think all truth is relative, etc.

Their potential victims have got to play it smart: most ordinary Americans do not like violence and rioting in their own country. They believe in fair play and democratic rights. Although of course everyone has the right of self defence, we have to be aware that the Left, and the mainstream media, will do their best to make our self-defencse look like aggression, or , at best, a 'both-sides-are-equally-guilty" situation.

So when the anti-Fa scum turn up at a patriotic rally or conservative meeting, we have to be cool-headed. Remember that the Civil Rights movement in the South won the approval of the huge majority of Americans by remaining non-violent in the face of racist violence. If forceful self-defence is necessary, then it should be proportionate. Remember that the real battle will be for he hearts and minds of ordinary people, and that, unlike in the Civil Rights era, the mainstream media are on the side of the initiators of violence.

 

So, no assault then.

 

Not sure where you're going with this or what even your point is.
I never said there aren't a marxist group in the US. There likely are. There's also KKK, white nationalists, et el.

I said, I don't see any groups pushing for any type of marixst/communist gov't. At least that is taken seriously

 

Saw the video...

Some proud boys beat up a few soy boys who were swinging sticks at them.

Stop swinging sticks at people you want no part of.

 

Yes, I was really replying to the person you were replying to, who said

The real Marxists in the US are in fact quite isolated from the American working class, and pretty much have been since the post-war witchhunt drove most of them out of the trade unions. Before that, they were a serious force, although not numerically large in electoral terms. (The CPUSA never had more than a hundred thousand members and maybe five to ten times that many sympathyzers. At its height it led 11 national unions, about a third of the CIO.)

Most of the current Left -- I mean people who are to the 'left' of ordinary liberal Democrats, people who think of themselves as 'activists' or 'social justice warriors'. These mainly young people actually despise the real working class in the US, at least its white component. It's a class thing, the usual view of the rising middle class against its social inferiors.

There are organized Marxist groups in the US -- the Socialist Workers Party, the Revolutionary Communist Party, the International Socialists, the Workers World Party, the Communist Party USA, and at least half a dozen smaller groups, plus two or three more loosely organized 'collectives' and discussion groups. I'd be surprised if together they have more than 5000 members.They have more influence than you might think -- the two main organized anti-War groups during the Iraq War, Not in My Name, and International A.N.S.W.E.R. were both organized and led by communist groups. The latter often step in and take the lead in organizing things that liberals themselves believe in but aren't committed enough or experienced enough to do. But as I said, they aren't the people in Anti-Fa, except maybe around its fringes.

The DSA -- Democratic Socialists of America -- have, when I last looked, over 20,000 members, but they are a mixture of all kinds of leftist tendencies -- few of whom are Leninists. The CPUSA is mainly in the Democratic Party (as is the DSA, with some CP members also being in the DSA) -- in fact, an old comrade and friend of mine, now a leader of the CPUSA, is also a Democratic Party precinct chair in Texas. How times have changed!

 

I think young people have always felt left out of the real working class. Especially when economic times are tough. They can't get a job, so a young person's reaction is to rebel. I rebelled against many things when I was young. Not working class, as I actually started making my own money at about 8 yrs old and have always made some money from that point on.
But I was just against rules in general. Not sure why, but I was. But I was never part of any protests, not my style.
It's why there are groupls like Antifa, Proud Boys, KKK, white nationalists. Wow, thats a few RW type groupls and only 1 LW type, if Antifa can even be called LW, since by definition, they should be against gov't in general. I guess I'm not aware of the LW type groups.

 

Almost without exception, since the anarchists before and during WWI,the serious hardline leftwing groups -- the organized Marxists -- have not carried out violence of the sort of violence anti-FA engage in. The Black Panthers and Weathermen, and Puerto Rican nationalists, did engage in sporadic violence, but not recently.

On the Right -- if you want to call them that -- there have always been violent groups. (I don't call think the word 'conservative' applies to them, just as I don't think the word 'liberal' applies to Marxists. But conventional usage demands that we see the world as Left vs Right, so let's use the adjective 'far' to distinguish them ... the 'far Right' and the 'far Left'. )

Every conservative I know -- the people I know personally, the conservative publications to which I subscribe, the conservative organizations I know -- condemns the KKK and neo-Nazis unequivocally and always has done.

All I want to see is for liberals and democratic socialists to do the same to anti-Fa and anyone else who believes in breaking up peaceful talks, rallies, marches, whether they are on the 'Right' or the 'Left'. It's pretty simple, actually. It's been disappointing to see people who ought to know better not doing this.

As for you. You are exceptional. Everyone who posts on a forum is. It's not a normal activity, not even for people with strong political opinions. By posting on a forum you're showing that you have -- perhaps only faintly -- a desire to communicate with others, maybe even change their minds a bit, or if not, then demoralize them ... but by using words, not half-bricks or iron bars.

If we move towards a society where the latter method of political combat is normalized, then we're in real trouble.

 

Organized marxists?
Have a good day.
I know of no one supporting marxist groups. Yet you seem fixated on them.

 

I don't think you've read my previous posts. No reason you should, but if you did, you'll see that I state there that there are probably no more than 5000 people in them in the US -- the hardline ones. Another 20 000 in the Democratic Socialists of America. They are well organized and play a role in the left out of proportion to their numbers, but they don't have a lot of explicit support. I'm not 'fixated' on them, I just know a lot about them, having been a member of a couple in my foolish youth. And foolish early adulthood. (As Marx said, the owl of Minerva flies only at dusk.)

 

Gotta love those Proud Boys. They filmed themselves attacking a Miami Democratic Party office, revealing that they were being led by the local GOP chairman! He had denied any involvement with them, but here he is leading the assault!

 

I don't think those marxists are interested in equal opportunity for all, as the D's claim to be about.

 

Well ... they want a society in which all of us are equal with respect to our ownership of capital and other high-value assets. They see that as a society in which everyone would have an equal chance to develop to their natural limits. There is nothing outright wrong with their abstract ideals.

The Democratic Party has always been a party committed to capitalism, just to reforming it a bit. Most Marxists have opposed it on principle. Of all those groups I mentioned in a previous post, only the Democratic Socialists of America (which has some Marxist members but is not officially Marxist) and the Communist Party USA are actually members of the Democrats. (As I said, an old comrade and friend of mine is now a leader of the Communist Party is also a Democratic Precinct Chairman.)

But of course most Democrats, and most Democratic political leaders, are not socialists in any meaningful sense. And by 'most' I mean the overwhelming majority. And no party can control who votes for it, or even who votes in its primaries, or even, usually, who runs in its primaries and gets the Party nomination.

 

Correct. They want all to have exactly the same.
Which is not equal opportunity. Which is a D claim.

 

Right-wing thugs commit the majority of domestic terror.

 

True - right-wing terrorism is much more common.

 

^ Thread win.

 

McInnes is the worst kind of scum & coward.

 

For what? He started a men's organization. What is the problem?