Mom sentenced to life in prison for feeding baby vegan diet

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by kazenatsu, Aug 30, 2022.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mom sentenced to life in prison for feeding baby vegan diet, after baby dies

    Allegedly the baby was not thriving on the raw vegan diet, was wasting away and losing weight, but the mother still persisted until finally the baby died.

    Vegan Mom Sentenced to Life in Prison After 18-Month-Old Baby Dies From 'Severe Malnutrition' (thegatewaypundit.com), August 30, 2022, Cassandra Fairbanks

    As additional circumstantial evidence against the woman, of the woman's other three children, two were in such poor health condition, their skin was yellow in coloration and one had such poor dental hygiene that their teeth were black. The remaining child, an 11-year-old and the oldest of the four, was in better health condition, presumably because she spent time with her father in Virginia where she was fed a proper diet.

    Do you believe this punishment was fair?


    Sometimes Veganism can be almost like a religion or a cult. The mom may have seen that her baby was not eating the Vegan food, but she still stubbornly refused to give her baby any animal products.

    It sounds like a wacky ideology was to blame as much as the mother may have been individually culpable for this. The mom may have actually thought she was doing the right thing, with all the beliefs she held about veganism. It seems though those beliefs were incorrect. Just because some babies might manage to do okay on a vegan diet does not mean all of them will. You also have to be really careful on a vegan diet to be sure you do it right. Especially if there is a baby involved. Many medical professionals do not believe that there is any way for a vegan diet is healthy for a baby.


    And on another unrelated note, don't you believe it's interesting that this woman was sentenced to life in prison for killing her baby, and yet abortion is seen as okay?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2022
  2. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It really hit me hard that this poor child was tortured! Not that I support abortions, but this is different, was the woman lower IQ ?
     
  3. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Add another one to the biggest prison population in the world. $30,000 a year, what's that over a lifetime.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the kid had a mom that was not thinking clearly, probably caused by the vegan diet

    but I am not sure if we can make it a crime, it's darwinism

    while I agree she killed her child with the diet, does the government have the power to force people to feed their children a certain diet?

    I think the public should learn from her mistakes though

    abortion is not the same at all
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Ya, starving a child to death is a crime, child abuse and murder.

    The government CAN tell you you have to feed your children...

    Funny how this woman was under the radar....but she probably never took her kids to a doctor..

    Why didn't "daddy" figure it out and report her?


    LOL, BTW, did ya see how the OP tried to slyly insert something totally unrelated into this, abortion....when it has nothing to do with abortion (except maybe to prove how these kids would've been better off aborted rather than tortured to death)
     
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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, but she was feeding the child, she thought she was doing good, she was brainwashed by the vegan movement

    do we want the government to be able to force people to feed a certain diet to their children?

    and also agree, this has nothing to do with abortion
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I suppose there are some analogies that can be made.
    Like a woman's obligations, and being punished for being reckless.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that is a misrepresentation of the facts, being spun up to focus on the veganism rather than the series of terrible decisions and actions this woman took. It's a classic tabloid situation of looking for an outgroup to attack rather than an individual because that triggers greater reaction (positive or negative), greater engagement with the story and thus more money for them. It is perfectly possible for children to be healthy on a vegan diet and equally possible for them to be unhealthy or malnourished on a omnivorous one.

    Nobody says abortion is "okay". Nobody says sending a mother to prison is "okay" for that matter. Both are imperfect options for addressing situations that are already not okay.
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    First and once again YOU do NOT determine women's "obligatons".

    Second a woman ,a PARENT, has obligations to feed their children, a woman has NOT got obligation to sustain another's life with her body.


    :) And there's your other favorite theme, punishing women..l.
     
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  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then who does, FoxHastings?

    Did the vegan woman in this story have any legal obligations to her baby, in your opinion? Did she meet her obligations, or did she fail?

    And this woman did feed her child. But she was still sentenced to life in prison for what she fed the baby.

    Well, I don't see any argument from YOU that she should not be punished.

    Any argument you want to present in this thread about this case?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? Aren't the two pretty intimately related?

    Maybe she could have fed the baby some different vegan diet that would not have resulted in the baby dying and her being punished, but the fact she chose to try to feed her baby a vegan diet is connected to what went wrong.

    Yes, it's theoretically possible, but there is a much higher chance of something going wrong.

    That's like saying it's possible to walk a tightrope over a ravine without taking too much risk. Yes, it's possible, but unless a lot of preconditions are met in the first place, such action is likely (near certain in fact) to lead to death.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    First and once again YOU do NOT determine women's "obligatons"


    The law


    DUHHHHH ,yes , parents have a legal obligation to care for their children.

    NO, she was sentenced for KILLING her baby.

    You really SHOULD READ YOUR OWN OP.

    Why TF would you??



    Any argument you want to present in this thread about this case?

    LOL YOU didn't even read your own OP :roflol::roflol:
     
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  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And what if the law is a little bit unclear and open to plenty of interpretation, like in this case?

    Did she kill her baby? Arguably yes. But not exactly completely clearly and obviously without question, under the law.

    I see, so you concede that if she does not meet her obligations, she has "killed her baby".
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said they weren't related, only that there was no good reason for it to be the leading point in the article. The baby was reportedly dehydrated (which wouldn't be directly relevant to veganism in principle) and the parents failed to seek medical help when the baby started having difficulty breathing. The article also mentions her husband being charged with sexual abuse (possibly involving of the older children) so it seems likely there were much wider issues going on here.

    The simple fact is that "Veganism kills baby" is a more saleable headline than "Bad parents kill baby". And you seem to be buying it.

    Not at all. Any diet, especially for a young child, needs consideration and planning to ensure it is healthy. Excluding animal products doesn't add to that consideration, it just changes the options in any given aspect. There are countless different factors that impact how people feed their children, some based on circumstance and some based on choice. If anything, vegetarianism and veganism will generally require people to think more about their food, which will bring nutrition to the fore alongside the question of source (laziness is one of the reasons I wouldn't be able to do it myself :) ).

    The problem here is that the mother apparently didn't do any of that thinking at all, and that would have been an issue regardless of the underlying basis of the diet she provided her children.

    Rubbish! There is nothing fundamentally dangerous about veganism. If you want a metaphor, maybe the difference between riding a motorbike on the highway rather than a car works better. It needs a few different and additional considerations but as long as they're taken, it isn't massively different in terms of risk.
     
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  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    This has less to do it hit being a vegan diet than it was to do with it being an inappropriate diet the child weighed the same as a 7 month old

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...s-life-in-prison-for-starvation-death-of-son/
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the jurisdiction. There is an old English law that talks of the “necessities of life”.
     
  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I see ONCE AGAIN how you have to cherry pick a post....what? You didn't like the part where you didn't read your own OP? LOL

    Yes, she clearly killed her baby. It didn't commit suicide.



    Why is killed her baby in quotation marks? Don't you think it's true?

    She KILLED HER BABY........and I don't have to "concede " anything.. she killed her baby ...doesn't matter if it was starved to death or she stabbed it or shot it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
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  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think you understand what cherry picking a post is.
    If some part of your post actually had something to do with the part of your post I was quoting and responding to...

    Are you saying that failure to hand over the proper nutrients is killing?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  19. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    People in the know realize that the key to proper health is rare red meat and beer.
     
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  20. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Don't forget unfiltered cigarettes ! :smoking:
     
  21. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) Yes, I do...it's what YOU do when you can't address what the poster wrote


    Like this:

    what? You didn't like the part where you didn't read your own OP? LOL



    Like this:

    what? You didn't like the part where you didn't read your own OP? LOL

    YOU cherry picked :

    """Why is killed her baby in quotation marks? Don't you think it's true?

    She KILLED HER BABY........and I don't have to "concede " anything.. she killed her baby ...doesn't matter if it was starved to death or she stabbed it or shot it."""



    WHY couldn't you address that ?????



    LOL, you sure like to complicate things when you are STUMPED :)


    Starving someone to death is "killing"....NO one else one earth has to have that explained....think that over
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think we'renot getting the whole story here.

    "O’Leary’s husband, Ryan Patrick O’Leary, was also indicted by a grand jury. In addition to being charged for the death, he is also facing charges of sexual assault on a victim younger than 12 and lewd and lascivious behavior/molestation on a victim young 12. He is currently awaiting trial."

    I don't believe this is just a case of 'oh she just didn't know'...
     
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  23. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Once again, FoxHastings, you use vague language, making it hard to have any discussion with you. Do you mean I didn't address everything you wrote, or that I didn't address the meaning of the specific part of your post I responded to?
    If it's the first one, that is not cherry picking, and you seem to be mistaken about what "cherry picking" means.

    You seem to love to play semantic shenanigans to try to obscure the issue and derail threads.
    Everyone can see what you do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    LOL Stumped ya again....it's so easy....and I see you need "everyone"....you don't speak for everyone but you say that when you have nothing else...
     
  25. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to do with abortion? Go get drunk while pregnant and see if you land in jail.
     

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