Monuments To The Confederacy

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Teddy Roosevelt1951, May 2, 2018.

  1. Teddy Roosevelt1951

    Teddy Roosevelt1951 Active Member

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    The current political climate in the United States is in sorry state of flux. There are those who understand our country was built by immigrants from around the world, and others who believe the nation was built by white men alone.

    For many Southerners, living in the former Confederate States of America is a considered a privilege. To these people, monuments glorifying the the men who fought and died to protect the the rights of slave owners and the horrors they inflicted on those black people who were their soulless property are precious reminders of their Southern “legacy”.

    These proud, white Southerners demand anyone who is offended by the monuments to these courageous Confederate soldiers must respect the wishes of those who want the statues, plaques, busts, etc. to stand....forever.

    However, this week in Montgomery, Alabama another historical monument to the Confederacy and Southern tradition opened, and many of these same proud, white Southerners were up in arms, declaring the past should be forgotten for the pain and anguish the memories cause.

    The new monument honors a specific group of victims of these proud, white Southerners and their ancestors. The black men who were lynched for “standing around”, for “annoying white girls”, for failing to call a policeman “mister”. Those are just a few of the horrific stories on display at a new national memorial to lynching victims in Montgomery, Alabama. And these lynchings did NOT end with the Civil War, they continue to this day. (Despite the inevitable contradictions by conservatives, “lynching” is not limited to hanging, any murder of an innocent African-American by a white man or group of white men for no other reason than he is black is defined as “lynching.”)

    Some of the comments by these proud, white Southerners concerning the monument honoring the innocent victims of lynching include: “ ‘It’s going to cause an uproar and open old wounds,’ said Mikki Keenan, a 58-year-old longtime Montgomery resident.’ She then added, ‘Local residents feel it’s a waste of money, a waste of space and it’s bringing up bullshit.’ “

    “ ‘It keeps putting the emphasis on discrimination and cruelty,’ chimed in her friend, who asked not to be named for fear that her child would disapprove of her remarks. The memorial, she added, ‘could spark violence.’ “

    Funny isn’t it, these proud, white Southerners strongly opposed the removal of monuments to those brave men who joined the Confederate military to kill those fighting to end slavery. Why, because those memories must be preserved....forever. But monuments to the victims of lynching bring back memories that might soil the image of these proud, white Southerners. So, these memories must be buried, with all types of their reminders.

    Here again, we have a shining example of conservatism’s typical hypocrisy and double standard. It is the same with the conservatives’ b!tching about Michelle Wolf’s so-called “insults” towards the liar-in-chief’s lying press secretary. (Hey, the idiot trump has lied so often he gets confused, and admits his lies by telling more lies when he changes his stories. His lies do, indeed, keep his mindless minions on their toes, they must change their justifications and defense with each revision in the tall tales told by the idiot trump.)

    Then we have the many years the Obama family were called monkeys by the conservatives, along with every other racial slur possible. He was not a citizen according to the right wing nuts. And the list goes on and on of the abuse layered on the Obamas by every right wing pundits and Noise outlets. (Of course, conservatives will conveniently forget how badly they and the congressional Republicans treated President Obama, or outright deny it.)

    The conservatives’ defense of the hate-speech spewed at Nazi rallies to “Unite the Right” have shown the true agenda of conservatism. They are fooling no one with their talk of “family values” or their beliefs in the “right to life” or their fake “Christianity”.

    So, you proud, white Southerners, suck it up, political correctness is dead, just as you wanted. The monument in Montgomery, honoring the victims lynched by your ancestors long ago, and those innocent black victims recently lynched by one of your close relatives, all deserve to be remembered. Whether you like it, or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ontgomery-alabama?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Buffer


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  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think they serve as a very visual reminder of where you've come from, I think they should stay.

    But I can see the merits of other views. The only thing I'm completely opposed to is their destruction. Leave them be with a plaque next to them explaining the context, sell them to private collectors, place them in national parks where battles were fought, whatever. None of these seem ridiculous to me.

    I'm also not a fan of reducing the civil war to a single partisan issue. It belittles the memory of the proud blacks who fought on both sides of the war, and it does a massive disservice to the abolitionists opposed to the war like Lysander Spooner, who favoured a peaceful way forward. It also forgets that the civil war was a long time coming and heavily influenced by feuding between agricultural Southerners and mercentalist Northerners. If you read your history from 1776 to 1865 it all makes a lot more sense than just "everyone on the confederate side hated blacks, loved slavery, no other ambitions, etc"
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
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  3. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    And who was recently lynched again?
     
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  4. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    James Byrd Jr. in Jasper, TX
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Support the right of secession. Let everyone do whatever the hell they want.

    Let each State decide what it will be - Authoritarian Theocracy, White Only, let the KKK run Georgia for all I care. I just don't want them having anything to say about my country - my home - anymore.

    Let them have their confederacy again. Who cares? People can move to the States with a form of government to their liking.

    Come on Texas!!! You've been wanting to secede for a long time. Join the fight to free the States and support the right of secession.

    This is probably the one thing we can all agree on: None of us want to live under the same government. We don't want this country anymore. So let's at least agree on that.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  6. AZ.

    AZ. Banned

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    Its funny, in Germany any and all things WW2 and Hitler were completely removed except for one thing.
    The concentration camps, were left as a reminder of the evil, and its mandatory children go and see it once a year...
    Not the good old USA, we make and keep monuments for losers?...and you wonder why its such an ugly underbelly to this day?....simple
     
  7. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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  8. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Nope, he was murdered and not lynched. It doesn't meet the definition. Would you call the murder of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome a lynching? Nah.
     
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  9. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but it does. It was a hate crime. Your example was not.
     
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  10. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Uh, no. A so called hate crime is a hate crime and the couple murdered was killed because they were White. However, a lynching has a specific definition of which your example does not meet. Next.
     
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  11. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    If a lynching isn't a hate crime....what is? What is a lynching to you that Byrd would not fit?
    If the couple were killed because they were White, that would also be a hate crime but there was nothing to suggest that that was the reason they were killed.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
  12. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest you learn the definition of a lynching. It is a premeditated extrajudicial killing by a group. Byrd's murder doesn't even come to close to meeting the definition. The problem with libs is that they think every African American that gets clipped is a lynching and it doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal.
     
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  13. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    I’m comfortable with my knowledge of the definition, you....I’m not so sure.
    3 white surpremists drag a man till dead and then go to a picnic. That’s a lynching.
     
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  14. Jitss617

    Jitss617 Banned

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    I live American history! Leave them.
     
  15. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Lefty tries to erase history . They hate America and Americans.
     
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  16. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He was roped around the neck with a chain and dragged behind a pickup truck by three right-wing folk heroes until his body dismembered.
    Your sick attempt at turd polishing is disgusting.
     
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  17. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    No it's not and you don't get to change the definition because you're a liberal. The Byrd murder doesn't meet that standard in the least. At least admit you're wrong instead of persisting with the delusion that Byrd's demise was a lynching. What would you call the Christian/Newsome murder? An accident caused by good boys gone bad, just trying to turn their lives around.
     
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  18. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    BS, Byrd's murder does not in any way meet the definition of a lynching. I suggest you look it up instead of relying upon the good old fashioned way of liberals, through emotions. There were also no right wing folk heroes involved, that is if you want to talk about turd polishing. Just because you're liberal, you don't get the change the definition of a lynching to suit you. Typical.
     
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  19. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you've said that before but haven't given any argument as to why it doesn't. I'll give just one example of why it does.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Byrd_Jr.

    James Byrd Jr. (May 2, 1949 – June 7, 1998) was an African-American man who was murdered by three white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas, on June 7, 1998. Shawn Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and John King dragged Byrd for three miles behind a pick-up truck along an asphalt road. Byrd, who remained conscious throughout most of the ordeal, was killed when his body hit the edge of a culvert, severing his right arm and head. The murderers drove on for another mile (1500 m) before dumping his torso in front of an African-American cemetery in Jasper.[1] Byrd's lynching-by-dragging gave impetus to passage of a Texas hate crimes law. It later led to the federal Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, commonly known as the Matthew Shepard Act, which passed on October 22, 2009, and which President Barack Obama signed into law on October 28, 2009.[2]
    Look, there you go again. You could at least explain why in your view it does not meet the definition.
     
  20. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol...Your disingenuous retort certainly meets the definition of turd polishing, though.
     
  21. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    White supremacy was a mainstream view in America within living memory. Many of those people's children share the same views. This isn't a dead issue.
     
  22. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    You might want to get some reading comprehension and look at definition I originally gave you. Even the NAACP has acknowledged that a lynching must involve AT LEAST 5 people and they don't even make the legal definition. This was not the case with Byrd.
    You also might want to look up the word extralegal and make an attempt at understanding it. A lynching is by definition a extrajudicial killing by a mob or group. This was clearly not the case no matter how much you wish it to be. I can't make it any simpler but you are a liberal and that always makes the job difficult.
     
  23. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, really? Even the NAACP considers a lynching to involve AT LEAST 5 people. But, hey it's your delusion and you're just wrong. Man up and admit it.
     
  24. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

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    To be clear, your wrong in your analysis but even if you were right....what point are you trying to prove?
     
  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No he was murdered and the people who murdered him are in jail.
     

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