More Blood on Blue Hands in Biden's America: 13-Year-Old Murdered in City of Angels. Thugs Rejoice.

They could probably ding him for not wearing a seatbelt in that drive by as well!

 

Perhaps we could start by taking these people out of civilized society:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#Post-2001

 

Are you trying to suggest right wing terrorists murdered this little boy? Do you have evidence to support this claim?

 

First time is just a warning, I think. And it sounds like a lot of states are now going to stop pulling people over for minor violations in response to cases like Duante Wright, the felon who was accidentally shot by a police officer after he refused to comply with lawful orders. It appears the authorities have bought the mistaken notion that black people are less than and should not be expected to behave themselves. Another case of the overt bigotry of low expectations.

 

Take any big blue democratic city. Name one. We'll break it down for you.

 

So your saying we should have no laws. Got it.

 

Pretty sure if you wanted to own a tank, you could. I could be wrong about that.

 

Oh good grief. Please don't be so arrogant as to pull words off of my keyboard. If I thought that was the case, I would have stated that.

You wrote "More people die because violent actors are permitted to remain in society. Pretty simple stuff." I'm just pointing out the well-established fact that right wing white supremacists/nationalists/ are the biggest threat to our safety and security, so if you really want "violent actors" removed from society, why not start there?

 

Calm down. It was a fair question in the context of this thread - which is a child murdered by thugs. As there was no indication of any involvement by "right wing terrorists," it seems at best a diversion from the actual subtext of the topic (which is urban street violence), and at worst disingenuous obfuscation. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

This is a fact: The fewer violent actors in society, the fewer acts of violence. Because acts of violence are perpetrated by? Wait for it... Violent actors! Voila!

A "well established fact" ? Or hyperbolic speculation? Surely you are able to submit evidence to substantiate your claim. Now would be a great time to share it. Ideally it would be in the form of actual violent crimes committed by actual right wing terrorists. The FBI UCR, for example, might be considered a reliable source.

While I'm waiting for your evidence, let me be perfectly clear about my position: The removal of violent actors should be pretty self-evident. It doesn't matter if they are "right wing terrorists" or "left wing terrorists" or street thugs, or sex offenders, child abusers, et al.. A person who commits an offensive act of violence upon a fellow human, should be removed from society by a long period of incarceration. There is no excuse. EVER.

 

Indeed. Laws are for the law-abiding.

 

Are you sure? I don't think violent offenders are tolerated anywhere. It's the level of enforcement of prosecuting theft, and maybe the felony threshold, that was being attributed to the rise in flash mob thefts. That makes sense. But does a murderer really think oh they're liberals they won't throw me in prison here? No.

 

Then you haven't been paying attention. No bail / low bail puts even the most violent criminals back on the streets. The guy who ended up murdering six innocent people with an SUV in Wisconsin was literally released a week before the heinous act on $1000 AFTER INTENTIONALLY RUNNING SOMONE OVER WITH THE SAME SUV. In CA, Jerry Brown reduced criminal penalties for crimes committed with firearms. In LA, Oakland, SF, Portland, Seattle, NYC, elected officials continually refuse to prosecute all flavors of crimes that align with their beliefs.

Just a reminder that is not the topic of this thread, nor the topic of the post you responded to.

Speculation. But what it does do is keep offenders on the streets when where they should be is behind bars.

 

Two fallacies in once sentence! Going for a record? I think the record is four -- you're half-way there!!

Worth pointing out at this point that only one participant in this thread has referenced 'Chicago.' Do you know who it was? Oh my gosh it was you!

And you have yet to offer a factual rebuttal to this thread.

 

On that, I could not agree more.

Now, the evidence:

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/fbi-dhs-domestic-terrorism-strategic-report.pdf/view

https://apnews.com/article/fbi-chris-wray-testify-capitol-riot-9a5539af34b15338bb5c4923907eeb67

https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-august-13-2021#

Happy reading!

 

This is Los Angeles. Only cops and bad people carry guns here.

 

Wisconsin isn't liberal, more moderate. And besides, when it comes to policy we don't need anecdotes, we need data. The trouble with the topic is that urban areas have more crime, and urban areas tend to be more liberal in general. One would need to show that a specific policy, especially a policy change, is a plausible partial explanation to a change in criminal offending. The hypothesis about theft is one that makes sense at least, as I said. The trouble with non-economic crimes is that the offender doesn't usually do even a rudimentary sort of calculus in their head about the risks. To the extent that deterrence occurs, it's more a matter of if they think they can get away with it completely rather than whether they will spend 2 or 5 years in prison.

As you allude to, prison can also be about incapacitation rather than deterrence or punishment. The devil is in the details, but I'd certainly be for a greater emphasis on keeping violent offenders away from the general public, but it should be allowed by a similar decrease in enforcement/severity of punishment of non-violent crimes like drug use. The United States is already one of the biggest users of incarceration in the world, and what do we have to show for it?

 

So, as I suspected, you have no actual evidence of violence perpetrated by "right wing terrorists."

Yet you argue

"if you really want "violent actors" removed from society, why not start there?"
​

You'll want to review, perhaps, the definition of the phrase violent actor. I'll make it easy for you: A violent actor is a person who -- wait for it -- commits? AN ACT OF VIOLENCE! And as I have argued consistently, the more of these people we are able to remove from our society, the fewer acts of violence we will witness.

Nor is "right wing terrorism" in any way connected to this boy's tragic murder in a gang-ridden big blue jurisdiction. But in the interest of a good faith discussion, I'll graciously accept your concession of the point and instead focus on the point of alignment you identified above in bold-face.

Here is our thesis: A person who commits an offensive act of violence upon a fellow human, should be removed from society by a long period of incarceration. There is no excuse. EVER.

In my view, the reason we are witnessing a catastrophic rise in the homicide rate across the country - primarily in big blue jurisdictions - is precisely because a loose coalition of elected officials, activists, and dutiful media sycophants are absolutely making excuses for violent behavior and are successful at swaying public opinion into believing absurd tropes such as a "well-established fact that right wing white supremacists/nationalists/ are the biggest threat to our safety and security" much to the detriment of bona fide attempts to reduce violence in our streets. It is this excuse-making that links directly to the move to do things like "defund police," eliminate cash bail to release even the most violent offenders on their own recognizance, "realign" criminal statues to turn felonies into misdemeanors, eliminate firearm-related sentence enhancements, and finally just flat out refuse to prosecute certain defendants, perversely abusing "prosecutorial discretion." Cognitive dissonance: intentionally refusing to hold violent actors accountable for their acts of violence, choosing instead to excuse away the bad behavior and then acting surprised when the rates of violence increase. This perfect storm of malfeasance and misfeasance both releases violent actors back into society to re-offend (often almost immediately), while simultaneously emboldens others to perceive a lower risk for behaving violently.

Here is a list of twelve cities that have recently broken their all-time annual homicide records. The political affiliation of each city's leadership is notated with an 'R' or a 'D.'

Portland, OR (D)
Tucson, AZ (D)
Albuquerque, NM (D)
St, Paul, MN (D)
Indianapolis, IN (D)
Louisville, KY (D)
Austin, TX (D)
Baton Rouge, LA (D)
Columbus, OH (D)
Toledo, OH (D)
Philadelphia, PA (D)
Rochester, NY (D)

Do you notice any similarity among these localities?

'It's just crazy': 12 major cities hit all-time homicide records - ABC News (go.com)

I think it's time to admit that coddling criminals isn't working.

Probably nobody better embodies this brazen violation of the public trust than George Gascon, the pathetic District Attorney of Los Angeles County whose malfeasance enables the murders of 13-year-olds in the jurisdiction it oversees who recently stated at a press conference: "We have set a path for ourselves and turned around the criminal legal system in the country in a way that will be more humane, more equitable and, above all, will create a safer environment for all of us." Tone-deaf regurgitation of woke talking points as the bodies are literally piling up.

 

Straw man.

Here's some data: 'It's just crazy': 12 major cities hit all-time homicide records - ABC News (go.com)

Thank you for proving my point. We can literally stop now.

How about defunding police, eliminating cash bail, eliminating sentence enhancements for firearms, "realignment" (dropping some felonies to misdemeanors), and just flat refusing to prosecute criminals as many DAs are now doing.

The topic of this thread is violent crime. We can discuss other categories of crimes in a different thread if you'd like.

Here's a fact: It is impossible to carjack someone from prison.

 

lol, I'll have to go into your info later, but no it doesn't prove your point at all (wait what is your point... that violent felons need harsher punishment, that liberal are bad, or what?) Ice cream sales and murder are also correlated, but they have no causative relationship, they have a common cause of warm weather that brings people outside and into contact with each other and also craving ice cream. Urban areas have more crime and more liberals, but that doesn't prove the crime is because of liberals. See spurious.

Fringes exist. Should I blame all conservatives because of what the fringe believes? When did all of society become ultraliberals vs ultraconservatives? But even if you argue it had its mainstream moment, all but the loudest crazy people have begun to realize it was a dumb idea.

On one of your other points, the DA system is completely ****ed anyway. It's about scoring points for them, not about the truth or safety. Not a liberal vs conservative problem, just a horrible system.

Didn't you learn about analogies in high school? It used to be part of the SAT test I remember. People seem to have so much trouble with comparisons and analogies.

 

Another straw man? Geesh! You going for a record? I never argued "crime is because of liberals" as you errantly suggest above.

Ok.

What a wonderful family of straw men you are creating here! Are you going to dress them all in matching shirts?

https://defundthepolice.org/

The above appears to be affiliated with the group Black Lies Matter. So you are saying Black Lies Matter has dumb ideas. Here we could not agree more!

'The Squad' Cortez, Omar, Pressley, Tlaib, et al, all on record supporting and even hashtagging #DefundThePolice. These congress members have captured the imagination of a wide swath of the progressive movement - from the Bernie Bros to suburban soccer birthingpeople who are undoubtedly mainstream Capital D Democrats. Consider: Just last month, Minneapolis voters narrowly defeated the balot initiative placed UNANIMOUSLY on the ballot by the city clowncil that would have, if passed, literally dissolved the city's police department. 44% of Minneapolis voters cast a yes vote to eliminate their cops. 44% is not exactly what statisticians would call a "fringe" as you suggest.

Irony that carjackings are up something like 600% in the City of Lakes? Along with homicide, armed robbery, ag assault, forcible sexual assault all up double digits. As a side note, Minneapolis' 'twin' city of St. Paul made the Dirty Dozen: the twelve cities that have broken their all-time homicide records this past year.

The prosecutor's job is to prosecute. Obvious to any objective observer. That position is now almost entirely political. We may have found some agreement here.

Fallacy, argumentum ad hominem. Your contention of what your debate opponent may or may not have learned in high school is not the topic of this thread. A factual rebuttal addressing the topic would better support your position.

That said, I'll tell you what I did learn in high school: Analogy is a pallid form of argument, second only to the logical fallacy, and is deployed when the debater is unable to factually substantiate his argument.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/22/white-supremacists-rightwing-domestic-terror-2020

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tack-white-supremacy-death-toll-a9364096.html

https://www.insider.com/right-wing-extremists-killed-16-people-last-year-2021-2

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/6/20754828/el-paso-shooting-white-supremacy-rise

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#Post-2001

. . . I could do this all day, there's so much of it!

On the other hand:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...mists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

I promise not to bother you with any more facts on this issue. I realize that the truth can hurt.

 

Of course this has NOTHING to do with the toxic liberal culture in blue big city America and the "leadership" of liberal politicians in these cities, does it?

 

More of them will be good people than will be bad people.

 

What a joke. I can see it now. Liberal politicians having inner inner city cops conduct gun door-to-door sweeps.

This may be hard to grasp "down under" but the goal of US libs is to disarm the good guys, not the bad guys.

 

The problem is gangs, you just said that yourself. If they don't have access to guns, then it would be knives, baseball bats, thrown from building etc..